Car for girlfriend to learn to drive in
- Thread starter megakid
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My wife recently started to learning to drive again.
She passed many years ago abroad but never owned her own car.
She has no interest in manuals and I myself would never go back to manual for a daily driver.
What is more electric cars have no gears and may be the future and autos are becoming more and more popular on family cars anyway.
It can't be long before manuals are the niche autos once were.
So she decided she would have an automatic test and an auto first car simply because she thinks manuals are deprecated.
Many people I know have switched to autos and would never go back, I never heard of anyone saying vice versa.
Changing gear with a stick to prize cogwheels apart while pressing a pedal will get left behind with sqeezing a rubber bulb for the horn and pulling up a metal stick attched to a ratchet to apply a park brake.
She passed many years ago abroad but never owned her own car.
She has no interest in manuals and I myself would never go back to manual for a daily driver.
What is more electric cars have no gears and may be the future and autos are becoming more and more popular on family cars anyway.
It can't be long before manuals are the niche autos once were.
So she decided she would have an automatic test and an auto first car simply because she thinks manuals are deprecated.
Many people I know have switched to autos and would never go back, I never heard of anyone saying vice versa.
Changing gear with a stick to prize cogwheels apart while pressing a pedal will get left behind with sqeezing a rubber bulb for the horn and pulling up a metal stick attched to a ratchet to apply a park brake.
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![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
I genuinely worry about this sort of thing and wonder if auto only licenses would be better restricted to those with a medical need.
Driving isn't something you just wake up one day and can master. It takes thought, determination and practice to develop it as a skill. It feels easy to most of us now but it also carries with it a lot of responsibility and requires a lot of thought.
Being able to 'master' the clutch isn't a lot to ask for permission to drive a vehicle on our roads unaccompanied. It's not a particularly high bar or a difficult standard to attain and I do wonder whether those who can't do it and instead opt for an auto are really that safe on the roads? I'm just musing really rather than saying 'omg they are unsafe' but you can presumably see where I am coming from here. If your wife 'forgot the brakes' when she had too much to think about then surely it was better to keep training her rather than give her less to think about?!
We don't really want otherwise capable drivers just giving up and taking the easy way out - we want a good standard of drivers on our roads. Part of learning to drive is practising and learning so you can overcome the overwhelming fear we all have when first start doing it. I remember when I first drove a car - I had no idea how I'd ever manage to do it. It all seemed to alien and difficult. But eventually you get there.
If you want to never drive a manual in your life then never buy one but surely anyone who is physically able to drive a manual should take a test in a manual?
I've nothing against autos - infact, I intend to never buy another manual car again. But people should drive an auto because they prefer it not because if they drive a manual they forget how to use the brake pedal.
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[TW]Fox;29769442 said:
I couldn't agree more.
However I guess it's the lesser of 2 evils, since the people who can't master manual gears are probably going to end up with a licence eventually, I'd rather they were able to concentrate on not driving into me rather than spending half the time staring at the gear stick
[TW]Fox;29769442 said:
Shame you didn't bother to quote the 2nd part of my post where I preempted this drivel.
She has practiced and overcome huge amounts of fear and the end result is far better driver than many that I see on the roads day in, day out. Still, I'm sure that being able to stir a stick and press another pedal would make her even more observant, able to judge other road users actions, specially aware, and able to position a car correctly on the road
I had a feeling we probably wouldn't be able to discuss this without the rolleyes coming out. A shame really as it's an interesting topic which given the responses so far - one agreeing 100% and one disagreeing 100%, has a range of views. I was careful to word my post as non-confrontationally as possible as I'm aware its a sensitive subject.
[TW]Fox;29769508 said:
OK, I'll retract the
Are you capable of having you mindset changed? Your musing that someone who can't/won't master the clutch can't be safe on the road is totally counter to my experience over the last year and if you're willing to change your mind I'll try and change it. If not, let me know in advance and I can spend my time doing something productive
Of course I'm capable of having my mindset changed. That's why I like discussion forums. If I wanted to go round and round in circles with people who will never ever ever change a view I'd read the Brexit thread 
Come on, I used to hate diesel and automatic cars and everyone who drove one and now I own a diesel automatic
Come on, I used to hate diesel and automatic cars and everyone who drove one and now I own a diesel automatic
[TW]Fox;29769554 said:Of course I'm capable of having my mindset changed. That's why I like discussion forums. If I wanted to go round and round in circles with people who will never ever ever change a view I'd read the Brexit thread
Come on, I used to hate diesel and automatic cars and everyone who drove one and now I own a diesel automatic
OK, apologies for my shortness I find myself 13 hours into a work day at an airport with an 11 hour flight ahead of me in scum class, in a middle seat going to see a customer who's dislike for me is only exceeded by my dislike for them
On the plus side Gin!
Right so back to your musings, think about what makes a good driver, or for that matter a bad driver. It's not being able to stir a stick next to them at the appropriate time, it's things like observation, anticipation, car control, concentration and confidence (not too much, not too little).
My wife took lessons initially in a manual, quickly mastered clutch control but for whatever reason had trouble braking and doing gears at the same time. Even when she was getting it right 99/100 times the thought that she could get it wrong played on her mind because she wanted to get it right and was worried that she could hurt someone. This in turn affected her confidence and she stopped making any progress and as a result stopped taking lessons.
Two years later when she realised that she does need to drive she has so little confidence that getting back in a manual car is just never going to happen. We agreed that she could get automatic only lessons and she started a year or so back, the build up to the first lesson was horrible for her as she was terrified of hurting someone by getting it wrong. Over the last year she has probably had 40 or so 2 hour lessons, far more than most people would need but a lot of it has been about giving her the confidence she needs, a lot of people (myself included) assume they will Pass and get it right (or if we get it wrong get away with it), she's always assumed that she would get it wrong and by taking away what is these days a pretty inconsequential part of the driving experience (for those who view driving as a mode of transport) she has been able to build confidence by becoming genuinely very good at what is important, observation, anticipation, etc.
The result is that she will likely be one of the better & safer drivers on the road as she's been able to build up the experience and confidence in what matters whilst not having to worry about what had become a psychological blocker.
There will always be Maureen's from Driving School who need Automatics to pass because they lack ability but don't confuse them with people who need an automatic to build the required confidence to be a good driver.
Soldato
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Agree with the fox.
Girl from work has an auto only licence because she "couldn't be bothered to learn the clutch". According to the last time I saw her drive she also doesn't bother to indicate or check for oncoming traffic before pulling out.
Girl from work has an auto only licence because she "couldn't be bothered to learn the clutch". According to the last time I saw her drive she also doesn't bother to indicate or check for oncoming traffic before pulling out.
I've been with people driving manual cars who've done the same. Does that mean that everyone with a manual license is a bad driver as well?
My wife has no mechanical empathy - and it was obvious she would struggle with a manual box and coping with road conditions at same time.
So I bought a Daff 44 - Yes a long time ago - I took her out for quite a long time till she had the road skill's off pat then sold it for a manual and she had lessons- She passed first time and is a steady driver - We now have a Auto and she much prefers it because hill start's are easier and there's no problem being in right gear - Said she had no mechanical empathy and still doesn't.
Personally I have always thought the British drivers have been behind the times regarding Auto boxes - probably due to old slush boxes but to me manual stinks and I spent 35yrs driving manual works vehicles. Total PIA all of them.
Big auto limo's for me - If only I could afford them.
So I bought a Daff 44 - Yes a long time ago - I took her out for quite a long time till she had the road skill's off pat then sold it for a manual and she had lessons- She passed first time and is a steady driver - We now have a Auto and she much prefers it because hill start's are easier and there's no problem being in right gear - Said she had no mechanical empathy and still doesn't.
Personally I have always thought the British drivers have been behind the times regarding Auto boxes - probably due to old slush boxes but to me manual stinks and I spent 35yrs driving manual works vehicles. Total PIA all of them.
Big auto limo's for me - If only I could afford them.
I just feel that learning auto only is going to come back and bite her somewhere down the line. Even if you do the full licence and then buy an auto, you want to know that if the need ever arises where you might need to drive a manual that a) you can and b) you're legally allowed to.
I fully get where you're coming from OP but this has all the hallmarks of being a PITA at some point.
I fully get where you're coming from OP but this has all the hallmarks of being a PITA at some point.
Thanks for all the comments thus far - both musing the choice of licence replies and those that actually recommended a car!
Regarding the licence, I can see where you are coming from [TW]Fox, I have a passion for driving and very much enjoy learning and mastering a skill such as manual gear changes but I after some thought I think I have to disagree that an automatic licence somehow makes you a worse driver.
I tried to think of another example so bare with me (perhaps it'll prove your point rather than mine!) - Compare this with writing instruments - I would guess a calligrapher, typically learnt using older technology, has better handwriting than the common population but now most just use a biro. Does that mean that everyone should go back to mastering writing with feather quills before they can use a biro? You could apply the same logic to other things too - at what point do you say that was the past and now we don't need it anymore?
Anyway it is an interesting topic. I really hope the manual car remains for long into the future but I don't believe it should be mandated onto the general population who just want to get from A to B safely. Anything else feels a little bit snobbish (as perhaps a calligrapher might think towards people who learnt with biros etc).
Regarding the licence, I can see where you are coming from [TW]Fox, I have a passion for driving and very much enjoy learning and mastering a skill such as manual gear changes but I after some thought I think I have to disagree that an automatic licence somehow makes you a worse driver.
I tried to think of another example so bare with me (perhaps it'll prove your point rather than mine!) - Compare this with writing instruments - I would guess a calligrapher, typically learnt using older technology, has better handwriting than the common population but now most just use a biro. Does that mean that everyone should go back to mastering writing with feather quills before they can use a biro? You could apply the same logic to other things too - at what point do you say that was the past and now we don't need it anymore?
Anyway it is an interesting topic. I really hope the manual car remains for long into the future but I don't believe it should be mandated onto the general population who just want to get from A to B safely. Anything else feels a little bit snobbish (as perhaps a calligrapher might think towards people who learnt with biros etc).
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Soldato
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I don't think not being able to get the hang of a clutch necessarily means your going to be a bad driver, being a good driver is all about awareness and respect of others too, but you do have to question whether someone who cant get the hang of a clutch while taking time to concentrate on their surroundings has the ability to be able to concentrate on multiple things happening at once, as well as pre-empting other situations. A skill required when driving.
this is a perfect opportunity to upgrade the pc to play driving sims and a decent wheel set
Though I still got told off for buying a fanatec