Car purchase gone wrong….

[Felon]

Ok so

I had a bmw m240i, due to me needing more practicality I ended up going with a broker, who had found a part-ex deal on an XC90, so I went and did the deal on Saturday the 3rd. Basically the xc90 had a full service history and no problems, I had to drive 150 miles to Scunthorpe to do it, but in the end I got the XC90 home and no problem. (The garage had a buyer for the M240i, so it was a chain of stuff that had to line-up, but it did and it all went through)

Friday morning (9th) 6 days later, I left my driveway got 100yds down the road and the turbo has either gone, or a turbo-related hose has gone, I can't tell, I managed to limp back home about half a mile at 20mph. Basically I have hardly any power, loads of misfire and a loud air rushing sound coming from under the bonnet. (I've had a turbo go before, and it seems the same).

So.

I based on the fact that it's broken so early (6 days after purchase), I have no confidence in it - so I went back to the broker on Friday and I've decided to exercise my 30 day right to reject, under section 20 of the CRA.

My understanding on the legislation, is that this is a pretty much open and shut case, I don't have to let the garage try and fix it - I can just reject outright, based on the fact this has occurred within the first 30 days. Furthermore, after speaking with the finance company - it's the garage's responsibility to pay to get the broken car back to them.

Is there anything I've missed? The broker seem to be dragging their heels a bit and I'm currently paying for a hire car at my cost, whilst this broken XC90 is sat on my drive.

From my end, it seems simple - the legislation is clear and unambiguous: it broke within 30 days, ergo: I can just reject it and there are no arguments, this was also purchased on Finance - so I imagine the finance company has an interest here as it's their legal right to ensure the car works?

Any help or advice would be much appreciated

 

[Felon]

In theory it should be open and shut, but depends. I rejected a car within a week and got a refund, but I had a dealer report listing the issues to support the claim (2009 325i Highline). I was a little hesitant to buy it as my test drive was brief and couldn't fully inspect it, but it had the exact spec I wanted, so bought it anyway, and immediately had booked in for a health check with BMW who uncovered a multitude of issues - repairs in excess of £3k

Yeah that sounds a bit more complicated than my case, as with me - it was all fine, then it's just experienced one failure and that has resulted in it sitting on my drive totally broken.

I'm sure others more familiar with the process will comment, but sounds all ok from me. Have you had any contact with the garage to let them know your intentions. Presumably they have to come collect it rather than the broker.

If you've only spoken with the broker then I'd say it's a good time to speak to the garage now.

Have you had any response from the broker? If the complaint only went in on Friday it's probably not something they'd deal with over a weekend. I'd give them a call tomorrow, and basically push for things to start moving else you'll have to go down the legal route.

Yeah i'll speak to the broker's customer service people today to see what they say, then I might speak with the garage tomorrow, just concious that I don't want to be "going around" the broker, but at the same time I need this thing gone and cancelling..

At the same time, I've actually gone out and gotten finance from a dealer, on a 2 year old vehicle which I collect on wed/thurs, so I'm sorted on that front, I just need this thing cancelling and returning...

 

[Felon]

I'd expect the broker to get the car looked at and repaired ASAP, and to pay for a hire car for you whilst it is off the road. To reject it over something which could be a matter of pence and take 20 minutes to fix seems very overzealous?

It’s a matter of confidence really.

For a failure like this to occur after 6 days - I just don’t want it, I have no confidence in it.

I want to do what’s best for me and just return it, without any hassle.

 

[Felon]

Did you discover you didn't really like the car and it is an ideal opportunity to get rid?

Not really, I did quite like it - I mean what's not to like about an XC90, it was pretty much ideal for my needs if I'm honest... It drove fine, etc etc.

My problem, is that for something like this to happen in 6 days, I have two choices;

1: Fix it, and carry on. (It has 3 months warranty anyway, and the 30 day period gives me the option to choose between letting them fix it, or rejecting it regardless of warranty - the choice is mine)
2: Reject it outright. (As we're within the 30 day period)

The bottom line, is that if this was an electric window, headlight or other silly issue - I wouldn't even tell anybody, I'd just take it down to the local garage and get it fixed... But when it's an actual engine issue and is physically conks out whilst I'm driving it 6 days after purchase.... It feels a lot worse and I'm going to be worried the next thing breaking...
I live out in the country and I need something I can rely on.

With option 2 - it gives me the ability to just wipe the slate clean and get rid, which to me feels like the most sensible thing to do. I think a lot of people would probably seriously consider doing this, if it happened to them, to be honest.

If this goes to court....here's the basis for the OPs claim (in his own words).

1. I ended up going with a broker, who had found a part-ex.

2. Basically the xc90 had a full service history and no problems, I had to drive 150 miles to Scunthorpe to do it, but in the end I got the XC90 home and no problem.

3. 6 days later, I left my driveway got 100yds down the road and the turbo has either gone, or a turbo-related hose has gone, I can't tell.


I'm not trying to prove I'm right or wrong (or clever) in this topic. Just sharing an insight into experiences I've had in the past. If the info is useless to you.....ignore it.

If you buy a washing machine from a shop and it breaks in 6 days - you have the right under section 20 of the CRA to reject it outright and get a refund, this applies to literally anything you buy from a shop in person or car dealership (online purchases, or distance sales have some slightly different rules I think)

 

[Felon]

Yeah I mean I'm not actually sure what it is..

When I limped back on Friday, it's a very loud whoosing sound coming from the bonnet when applying power, with a horrendous misfire - like the car lurching forward then almost cutting out completely, only just managed to make it back. Engine RPM was limited to about 1500-2000 and I managed about 10-15mph..

I had a look under the bonnet and visually checked all the hoses I could see, intercooler hoses and stuff all looked okay - but I couldn't see down to where the turbo is and I'm obviously not touching *anything* or even attempting to fix it...

My experience with cars, is that this sort of stuff generally tends to be very expensive, and once something like this breaks, it tends to be one thing after another... (that's my personal experience, I have no doubt other people's experiences differ)

 

[Felon]

What is the age and mileage of this car?

2014, 70k miles.

 

[Felon]

As it's an old XC90 - I'd not blame you for looking for an excuse to get out of it!

To be honest, I know that the D5 is a good engine, my dad had one and did 250k miles without a problem... So it felt fine to me at the time... Hence now - if a vehicle of that type is breaking like this at 70k miles... I don't trust it.

To your point, if it was a 2-3 year old one, it would still likely be covered by manufacturer warranty, so I'd have a lot more in the way of confidence there.

Is it a D5? They are known for blowing off PowerPulse pipes in quite a dramatic fashion. Easy fix (just replace the pipe) as long as the cause was a degraded pipe. If the cause is consistent over pressurisation then it does get more complicated.

The problem is, if I'd have been 10 miles away when it broke down I'd have had the AA fix it on the spot (if possible) or take me to a garage to get it diagnosed and then I'd have made a decision...

The actual fact is, I limped back home where it's sat on my drive and nobody is currently looking at it, so it's awkward in that sense.

In any case, I'll be making a bunch of phone calls tomorrow, I'll start off with the broker first thing, then the finance company and we'll go from there.. Apparently the garage is calling me tomorrow, but I'll let the finance company dictate proceedings, as they're the ones who've paid the dealer for what is essentially a faulty product.

 

[Felon]

That was my first thought too. An 8 year old car, could we'll have had the turbo on its way out along with various other expensive repairs, so probably a good thing to get shot of now. You'd have been pretty ****** off if it did this in 6 months time.

To be honest, I've had my fair share of expensive new cars, and in the near future I'll be getting a large dog, I also do a lot of fishing (and I mean a lot!) so I don't want to be buying a new expensive £40k SUV that I can get all my gear in and a dog as it'll just get ruined.

I thought - If I go for an older one with a good service history and buy it on finance (I paid £14k for this one), get it kitted out with mats and stuff for all the gear, etc - it should be a relatively safe bet for a while..

In a way I am glad it's broken really quickly lol, as I have the entire CRA section 20 to fall back on..

New vehicle is 18 months old with 13k miles on the clock, (Vauxhall), so a much safer bet, it has about 18 months manufacturer's warranty left on it and i'm getting it from a main dealer.

 

[Felon]

Garage called this morning,

Dealer was angry at me for not speaking to him first (as I originally spoke to the broker on Friday), he then said that I can't "just reject" the vehicle, and that the 14 day cooling off period doesn't apply to me, because I can't prove the fault was there. Also I can't just reject the vehicle without giving them a chance to fix it.

I explained to him that I'm not changing my mind under the 14 day cooling off period, I'm exercising a section 20 CRA right to reject due to it being faulty, and I don't need to give any opportunity to fix - I can just reject it outright and that's basically all there is to it.

He then replied "ok fine, let the finance company deal with it".

So I spoke to the broker this morning and their specialist returns/rejections guy, they're basically saying I'm 100% correct, as far as my rights go, they're going to handle the rejection themselves and they're also going to reimburse me for my hire-car costs.. They're saying it should be an open shut case..

 

[Felon]

But as a dealer you absolutely can't get the customer to sign away their legal rights.

Yeah I mean this has always been my understanding, the entire point of having statutory rights, and things such as the CRA - exists precisely to stop rogue traders, or whoever, from selling known, knackered goods to the public. Then eliminating any chance of recourse because the customer signed some vague document with 1000 lines of small print which tells them they can't return anything.

*For the record, I don't think the dealer I bought the car from is a rogue trader in any way, I think this is a legit failure that just occurred,

 

[Felon]

Haha, I did the same. Sold my old A4 that I had no issues dumping all my tackle in the back - did me proud. Changed it for a new car and then went fishing about 3x in the years that I owned it because I didn't want to get it dirty inside.

I know lol,

The problem with most big SUVs is that they're mostly just glorified posh school buses, it's like dumping all my gear into a luxury hotel room.

Standard second hand car dealer having a tantrum when you're returning one of their faulty cars.

Yeah to be honest, it felt like he was trying it on as he did try to tell me that I can't bring it back, at all... As soon as I quoted section 20 he pretty much gave up right away...

 

[Felon]

Broker customer care people called earlier, they're arranging for it to get sent back to the dealer. If the dealer says they want proof that it's broken, which if they do - they'll send a mechanic to diagnose it. If it turns out that it's just a hose which has split or blown off and it's an easy fix, doesn't change the legalities - I only need to prove that a fault is present.

My current V70 had the same issue, the jubilee clip on the turbo hose was loose, not to the point where it blew off but it took a few turns of a screwdriver to tighten it up.

Yeah I mean, when I look under the bonnet with a torch, I can see the hoses going to and from the intercooler - those jubilee clips are all tight.. There is a hard plastic hose which goes down to the bottom of the engine and that's secure.. I can't see anything else and I'm obviously not going to disassemble anything because I'm not a mechanic, and if I interfere with anything, I risk affecting my statutory rights if I attempt to diagnose or repair it myself.

As far as I can tell there's nothing obvious that I can tell. (although I'm sure if a mechanic does turn up, they'll know pretty quickly)

 

[Felon]

In my experience they think they can talk their way out of it as I guess that's what they do for a living. Unfortunately for them, some people are willing to read up on their consumer rights which the dealer doesn't like...

Yeah I was quite surprised to be honest, considering I did a 360 mile round trip to do the part-ex deal in the first place, and everything was straight forward, I was surprised that he was trying to fob me off by telling me I basically have no rights..

how many miles total had you done - was the 150 basically it,
did/do you have to send a formal registered letter or something, or broker will organise that.

It's done 500 since I collected it, including the 150 as I had a busy week going to the office, and yeah they filled out a new keeper V5 doc when I picked it up.

My understanding from a consumer rights point of view, I could have done 2k miles in it during that week if I'd have wanted to, as goods which are sold have to be fit for purpose, and it's implicit that a Volvo XC90 with only 70k miles on the clock, should easily be able to drive that distance in a week without breaking down.

 

[Felon]

I’d expect you’ll have a split in the hose in that case, again far from uncommon with the D5 engine, from what I’ve read it’s difficult to spot unless the hose has a huge tear in it, it can easily be a relatively small hole but it’s enough to give you the loss of boost symptoms.

This isn't loss of boost, this is like the engine won't go past 1500rpm and it's almost cutting out, lurching back and forth.

 

[Felon]

Garage are refusing the rejection, they say they're not liable because I've driven it 500 miles - therefore the fault couldn't have existed at the point of purchase. The customer service people at the broker are getting their senior team to speak to him....

I've engaged a consumer lawyer for a fixed fee consultation tomorrow. I get an hour to ask as many questions as I like, find my actual legal position and know 100% what my options are.

From the chat I had with the lawyers, they said it's a pretty simple situation, but I'll know more tomorrow.

 

[Felon]

Sounds like a lot of fuss compared to just allowing them to get a mechanic out and resolve what sounds like well known issue with this engine. Sounds like buyers remorse to me on how defensive you've gone with the garage you bought it from.

As I've said, if it was a wing mirror or electric window that needs fixing, I'd have just got it done and not complained to anybody, but when I've physically broken down in it 6 days after purchase, I've lost all confidence in it. With cars, once one thing breaks, it tends to be one thing after another.

If I'm honest, I'm glad it broke so quickly - if it had broken 6-8 weeks into ownership it would have been much more annoying.

the OP has already sorted a deal on a 2 year old car.

buyers remorse the OP has sabotaged the volvo.

I *had* to get something sorted out this weekend, the volvo broke on Friday, I'm currently driving around in a hire car at my cost. I live out in the sticks and can't be without a vehicle, so I just don't have the time to be messing around.

 

[Felon]

Thia is why I said what the law states and what people actually do are two very different things. Pretty sure the legal advice will be:

Allow the finance company to deal with it.
Diagnose the problem.
Document everything.
Be prepared to go to small claims (although not sure if you'd have to go or the finance company will fight it/write it off)

Yeah this is basically what's happening.

Just spoke to the broker, the dealer is saying he doesn't believe that the car is faulty, so he wants proof that it is.

In this case, the lender is going to send a mechanic to do an inspection to prove that the fault exists - which I'm allowing.

 

[Felon]

Not sure how significant the 500 miles will be here. It is a fair bit of milage and I wonder if they could say it's wear and tear for a car of this age? Equally you'd expect a car you juat bought to be relatively trouble free. If it just a pipe that's popped off or split then the legal advice might be to get it fixed because it might not be considered a significant fault.

Yeah I mean, the garage also say they serviced it and have put a stamp in the book, when I collected it... So I think I can also argue additionally, that it's broken after they've serviced it and guarenteed it defect free, but i'll defer to the laywer on that one tomorrow.

Again, the 500 miles as far as I'm aware, boils down to "fit for purpose" as I'd expect a car of that type, to be able to drive 500 miles without breaking, but again - another question for the lawyer...

 

[Felon]

sounds like you'll have to wait for engineer report to find out if it is an unpredictable failure...

Yeah, I mean the finance company will be sending a mechanic to look at it, but he won't be fixing it - it'll be an inspection. If it is deemed to be faulty, then the law states I have a right to reject it - according to the broker, and my own understanding, however I'll get a concrete answer from the legal firm tomorrow.

I may well be wrong - very! - but, just saying it mirrors my experience which turned out to be trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Honestly, I think you're probably going to be right, I'm not really disagreeing with the hose diagnosis, it's more the fact that due to this happening on day 6, I just have no faith in the vehicle at all... Because these things tend to just start breaking, one thing after another. If it had happened 6 weeks after or whatever, I'd have just gotten it fixed - but in less than a week, nah.. I'm not keeping it.

It's just too close to the point of purchase, especially with a significant fault that caused a breakdown - as in, it can't be driven at all... Like I said - if it was something silly like the windscreen wipers or a lightbulb, no problem - but stuff to do with engines, (even if it is just a split hose or whatever) forget it...

 

[Felon]

The dealer is coming across as a bit of a scumbag tbh. If he doesn't understand consumer law then he should have a solicitor on hand that he can bounce questions off. Instead he's choosing to throw his toys out the pram.

Yeah I mean, he could just accept it back, fix it and resell it - it's no skin off his nose in the grand scheme of things, it's his job as a dealer to handle this sort of thing...

This is another reason why I'm speaking with a lawyer tomorrow (at a cost of almost £200) as I just want my position to be crystal clear, from there I can either force it through - or back down, if the lawyers think it won't be worth it, or there's a poor chance of success... However, it seems pretty clear and straightforward to me...

I just don't want it to drag on for months and months...