Car purchase issues (I did not want working rear calipers with 400bhp anyway....)

Manbatius

Manbatius

Manbatius

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Hi all,

TLDR

I bought a mustang, however turns out it has no rear working calipers, so I now have a 24 plate X trail for... 2 weeks maybe 2 months...
Would you complain? Reject the car? What would you expect them to do (I think nothing, family think heaven and earth)

The detail
Purchased the Mustang from a main dealer (not ford though), the inspection revealed it needed 2x rear tyres, rear disks and pads.
So they changed the tyres (to "Triangles, after telling me Nexens), went to change the discs, but pads were on back order.

Here was my mistake, accepting the car without the mot being renewed which they would not do without the pads... problem was my focus in the sig is 13 years old and MOT was due, I wanted the Mustang as I have been looking for months and obviously they were pushing hard to get it all done before October 1st.
Done about 100 miles in the car, after waiting 2 weeks.... I just rocked up asked what was happening, hey presto pads appear next day.
Tuesday this week in for all the work, turns out neither rear calipers work. I did say on the test drive the handbrake felt very high (it is an auto).
So I have been told could be two weeks, or two months as one of the calipers is on back order.....

Tonight I get a message from warranty company about if I knew there was a claim, I assume so it does not eat into their profit, they are claiming on the warranty for the callipers, where really its been a fault all along.So I am thinking , most warranties have a maximum claim amount, so not happy, going to check my documents.

Family think I should try and reject the car.... but obviously its not that simple, buy an interim car maybe.... only other Mustang round here suitable is £29.5k for a 2016, its just too much (I mean value, higher tax, cant put my private plate on)

I guess... expectations, what would people do now? I want to ring them about the warranty claim but want advice first.
I am unfortunately the sort of person who does not like conflict for various reasons I would rather not get into, but I can sometimes get walked over.

Sorry for the long post but blargghhh, wish I posted sooner tbh, works been hell, so taking all my time.
 
I would reject it. I wouldn't buy a car and expect to wait immediately for an unlimited amount of time for a part no.
Can they not service the calipers?
Why do they not work? Has the car been sat for ages and they seized up?
 
Manbatius said:
Hi all,

TLDR

I bought a mustang, however turns out it has no rear working calipers, so I now have a 24 plate X trail for... 2 weeks maybe 2 months...
Would you complain? Reject the car? What would you expect them to do (I think nothing, family think heaven and earth)

The detail
Purchased the Mustang from a main dealer (not ford though), the inspection revealed it needed 2x rear tyres, rear disks and pads.
So they changed the tyres (to "Triangles, after telling me Nexens), went to change the discs, but pads were on back order.

Here was my mistake, accepting the car without the mot being renewed which they would not do without the pads... problem was my focus in the sig is 13 years old and MOT was due, I wanted the Mustang as I have been looking for months and obviously they were pushing hard to get it all done before October 1st.
Done about 100 miles in the car, after waiting 2 weeks.... I just rocked up asked what was happening, hey presto pads appear next day.
Tuesday this week in for all the work, turns out neither rear calipers work. I did say on the test drive the handbrake felt very high (it is an auto).
So I have been told could be two weeks, or two months as one of the calipers is on back order.....

Tonight I get a message from warranty company about if I knew there was a claim, I assume so it does not eat into their profit, they are claiming on the warranty for the callipers, where really its been a fault all along.So I am thinking , most warranties have a maximum claim amount, so not happy, going to check my documents.

Family think I should try and reject the car.... but obviously its not that simple, buy an interim car maybe.... only other Mustang round here suitable is £29.5k for a 2016, its just too much (I mean value, higher tax, cant put my private plate on)

I guess... expectations, what would people do now? I want to ring them about the warranty claim but want advice first.
I am unfortunately the sort of person who does not like conflict for various reasons I would rather not get into, but I can sometimes get walked over.

Sorry for the long post but blargghhh, wish I posted sooner tbh, works been hell, so taking all my time.
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What is the rest of the car like?

Rear callipers seizing is a thing on Mustangs, so as annoying as it is, if the rest of the car is good then I wouldn’t automatically go nuclear.
The tyres are a different issue, on a Mustang you want something moderately decent, it can struggle for grip with MPS4S on, so no names? No way! However, most dealers would probably cheap out, if you had rocked up and it had a set of new but no name tyres what would you have done?

I’d potentially ask for some money back to allow upgrading tyres/ compensation for the loss of the car due to the rear callipers.. £500 would be a starting point… if they blank you on the tyres, ask them to get their head mechanic to sign a letter that in his professional opinion he would recommend the supplied tyres for a 430bhp rwd sports car and he would be happy with them on his own car..

The handbrake's are all a bit 'high' IME, the first one I drove I thought it silly.. but by the 8th car with them all much of a muchness I realised they are probably that way for ergonomics due to its location still being set as an LHD car.. My 2700 mile (when I picked it up) Mustang Auto also was 'high' I queried it with Ford when it had a service, they adjusted it and it was about 10mm less but still 'high'..

As for warranty, how much did they give you,? at the end of the day, any fault found within the first 6 months would be assumed to have been there at the point of sale unless they can prove otherwise, after 6 months the ownness is on the customer to prove it was present at the point of sale.. Warranties are often used by garages as they cost them a small amount but gives this 'barrier' that they hope will fob off a customer when the warranty inevitably tells you something isn't covered and overlook the normal consumer rights.
 
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Demon said:
What is the rest of the car like?

Rear callipers seizing is a thing on Mustangs, so as annoying as it is, if the rest of the car is good then I wouldn’t automatically go nuclear.
The tyres are a different issue, on a Mustang you want something moderately decent, it can struggle for grip with MPS4S on, so no names? No way! However, most dealers would probably cheap out, if you had rocked up and it had a set of new but no name tyres what would you have done?

I’d potentially ask for some money back to allow upgrading tyres/ compensation for the loss of the car due to the rear callipers.. £500 would be a starting point… if they blank you on the tyres, ask them to get their head mechanic to sign a letter that in his professional opinion he would recommend the supplied tyres for a 430bhp rwd sports car and he would be happy with them on his own car..

The handbrake's are all a bit 'high' IME, the first one I drove I thought it silly.. but by the 8th car with them all much of a muchness I realised they are probably that way for ergonomics due to its location still being set as an LHD car.. My 2700 mile (when I picked it up) Mustang Auto also was 'high' I queried it with Ford when it had a service, they adjusted it and it was about 10mm less but still 'high'..

As for warranty, how much did they give you,? at the end of the day, any fault found within the first 6 months would be assumed to have been there at the point of sale unless they can prove otherwise, after 6 months the ownness is on the customer to prove it was present at the point of sale.. Warranties are often used by garages as they cost them a small amount but gives this 'barrier' that they hope will fob off a customer when the warranty inevitably tells you something isn't covered and overlook the normal consumer rights.
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Thanks for the replies guys,

Demon, I read about their issues it has 27k on, which is not a lot for a 2017 car, judging by one of the disks I imagine it has been grabbing, then not so much.
if I got there and it had no names on back but frsh, I would assume dealer put them on and budget to upgrade / negotiate.

Interestingly there was a red none facelift near me for £30.5 and it had new "trackmaxx" all around, but they dont meet the speed criteria, its very much a my ditchfinders are better than yours scenario!

Handbrake I was aware of them looking high as I had sat in two before, so didnt feel like I was being dismissed.

Warranty, 6 months standard with RAC which is what they are claiming on, then I paid for 3 years (also rac) ( aware of what it does and does not cover heh)

Jaybee

Cannot be serviced it seems, when I was along the coast stuck in traffic, i popped it in neutral and they dont even remotely hold the car.
I am assuming this is a calliper handbrake system and not a brake shoes inside the disk job.

Morning update is its in the workshop text notification, I will ask for something for the inconvenience and to upgrade the tyres. While rejecting is fine, leaves me in a tricky spot as I collect the kids 4x days a week so would need to replace it asap.

Oh and as a lol, getting a solid 26 mpg from the e-power X trail!
 
Follow up question sorry, its the original sales team I complain too right? or would you go different.
I expect they will try and ghost me, obviously the servicing desk guy is some young lad who just takes peoples cars in etc so don't think its him.....
 
I'm struggling to work out how two sub 10 year old callipers have managed to simultaneously fail? Sounds a bit fishy to me especially as the pads were worn.

If they'd failed such that they couldn't apply the brakes, how did the pads get worn?

Likewise if they'd seized on, and been driven long enough to wear through the pads, you'd see the effect of the discs having got toasty hot either in discolouration or glazing.

Whatever the case, rejecting the car may well be the simplest solution.
 
lordrobs said:
I'm struggling to work out how two sub 10 year old callipers have managed to simultaneously fail? Sounds a bit fishy to me especially as the pads were worn.

If they'd failed such that they couldn't apply the brakes, how did the pads get worn?

Likewise if they'd seized on, and been driven long enough to wear through the pads, you'd see the effect of the discs having got toasty hot either in discolouration or glazing.

Whatever the case, rejecting the car may well be the simplest solution.
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The behaviour the OP describes is exactly what happens, most people only realise when the handbrake isn't working entirely which means both sides are seized at that point.. this happens on cars with <30K miles and well under 10 years old:
e.g. https://www.reddit.com/r/Mustang/comments/12bo95a/2019_s550_ecoboost_rear_brake_calipers_seized/

A poor design for sure, but not the end of the world.. Mustangs are remarkably straight forward in most terms, simple servicing and only really the oil cooler being the one to really look out for, some do burn a bit more oil than others, but they are extremely reliable mile munchers.

As for the pads, the common failure is the spring return mechanism of the handbrake, but the handbrake does not apply that much pressure, it could be partially dragging and wearing the pads over a period of time..
The single-piston callipers on the rear of the Mustang act as both the footbrake and the handbrake. One issue we commonly see is little to no handbrake performance. This is caused by the calliper’s spring return mechanism seizing.
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www.motorsportandperformance.com

OE Spec Replacement Driver Side Mustang Rear Brake Caliper For Ford Mustang 2015+ - Motorsport and Performance

Mustang Rear Brake Caliper New Supplier New Price
www.motorsportandperformance.com www.motorsportandperformance.com

I wouldn't overthink it personally, there is no real concensus on why this happens, but it's not a sign of abuse/neglect..
 
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Same happened to my friend’s Mustang needed two new rear calliper's at 4 years old.

Aslong as they are being replaced at no cost I wouldn’t be concerned. You have a high chance any other Mustang you get will have the same issue.

I think the ship has sailed on the rear tyres the time to question that would have been before accepting the car with them fitted.
 
Dangerous Dave said:
Same happened to my friend’s Mustang needed two new rear calliper's at 4 years old.

Aslong as they are being replaced at no cost I wouldn’t be concerned. You have a high chance any other Mustang you get will have the same issue.

I think the ship has sailed on the rear tyres the time to question that would have been before accepting the car with them fitted.
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Again, thanks all for the inputs, putting my mind at ease.

This was a consideration above especially, a friend just asked me.... you have done less than 7k in five years... if the cars are prone to calliper issues, you will be better with new ones!
As long as they are genuine.

Agree on tyres, I did source a few cars at a place called junction 17 bit of a travel.... ironically the one I was interested in the most had Triangle tyres as well, destiny!
Thats my only flirt thus far with rejecting

I have a plan to complain now at least anyway.

A friend did make a comment, the longer they have it the longer that I am eating into the warranty. (oh I checked the warranty policy and the claim limit is car value)
 
You could try the reject the car option to see if it flashes them into action to ask "what can we do to make this nice?".
The vendor might not want to lose a sale and have to wait quite some time for another buyer to come along so there is a chance you might be able to get better tyres, extension to the warranty to account for loss of on road time etc.

Just a thought.
 
Manbatius said:
Agree on tyres, I did source a few cars at a place called junction 17 bit of a travel.... ironically the one I was interested in the most had Triangle tyres as well, destiny!
Click to expand...

Irrespective of the rest (rejecting the car or not) I'd 100% definitely agree with you changing whatever tyres are fitted to the Mustang you end up with for a full set of either Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Continental CSC6 or something equivalent with that sort of power in a RWD car.

For myself, I'm a massive fan of the MPS4S, having done 16k miles on a set so far at over 950hp with no noticeable wheel spin at full throttle in 2nd gear upwards in the dry in my AWD car i.e.very long lasting and great wet/dry grip. I've also found the CSC6 on similar mates cars to be just as good but seem to wear out much, much faster.
 
I think sometimes **** happens when you buy a car. Work with them to sort the issues. Be polite but clear with your expectations. Don't play a game of say little, expect lots, end up frustrated when they offer the minimum - just say what you need to sort this out and be realistic.

You need to make your peace that a car dealer won't (typically) choose to fit decent tyres. I always price in my head that I'll need new tyres when buying a new car unless it's from a franchised dealer like BMW where they are usually always star marked tyres/whatever.

As others have said - Definitely go and get some decent premium tyres.
 
ianh said:
Irrespective of the rest (rejecting the car or not) I'd 100% definitely agree with you changing whatever tyres are fitted to the Mustang you end up with for a full set of either Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, Continental CSC6 or something equivalent with that sort of power in a RWD car.

For myself, I'm a massive fan of the MPS4S, having done 16k miles on a set so far at over 950hp with no noticeable wheel spin at full throttle in 2nd gear upwards in the dry in my AWD car i.e.very long lasting and great wet/dry grip. I've also found the CSC6 on similar mates cars to be just as good but seem to wear out much, much faster.
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Thanks for the suggestions, interestingly I already had the MPS4S noted down from searching some Mustang forums not many seem to stick with the P zero pirelli's.
Thanks for all the advice guys, this thread has too much complaining from myself, so heres some Mustang pics
MLKOAkh.jpeg

imcKZWA.jpeg

Also if anyone was wondering how I did not see the tyre change, collection was a bit of a nightmare as it was one of those monsoon days and I was trying to concentrate on other stuff that had been done (stone chips, alloy scuff etc) overcast and hard to see, I just noticed the tyres were new.

Spoke to someone in family who used to work there and have a plan of action. their main point was around fitting of ford parts and the longer it is in, the more of the warranty I wear down, which I had not thought of!
 
The P Zero are odd. I don't think the OEM supplied ones are the same as the off the shelf ones. But that isn't advertised anywhere.
 
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Holy thread update.

Garage says the callipers were working when I got the car hence warranty claim..but claim limit is cost of vehicle.

Tyres should have been Nexens but they fitted wrong ones. £100 my way for the difference. See this as fine as if it was Nexens on now, id still be changing them.

Rubbish wipers will be changed if they fail MOT.

I asked them to sort some stone chips I found on roof. They said they would but this must have happened when I had the car and that they weren't rusted .
So I sent them the pic of those and a third they can do on the bonnet. (They are rusted)

So I'm happy with the outcome. Even if in the 100 miles I've driven the car.... A lot has happened with stone chips and suddenly calliper failing. Hah

Now I wait. Solid 26 mpg on this X trail ..... Doesn't have the same sort of sound though....
 
Dangerous Dave said:
Same happened to my friend’s Mustang needed two new rear calliper's at 4 years old.

Aslong as they are being replaced at no cost I wouldn’t be concerned. You have a high chance any other Mustang you get will have the same issue.

I think the ship has sailed on the rear tyres the time to question that would have been before accepting the car with them fitted.
Click to expand...

Yup, my mustang needed new rear callipers too - seems pretty common. Luckily the dealer replaced them at no cost (oddly, J17 as someone mentioned).
 
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