Cardinal: Paedophiles aren't criminals

[aln]

Your point being that evidence will always never be perfect. Of course it won't an no one pretends otherwise but I will always take scientific evidence in peer reviewed articles that acknowledges it design faults over random conjecture and opinion as I have already stated.

Right I get it, you're happy accept to something that fairly faulty but published and not anything else. Yeah, like I originally said.

Surely then the onus is on exercising some responsibility when dealing with the internet and not placing yourself in the situation in the first place? Every week we have threads about parents leaving kids unsupervised on the internet and how that is bad parenting - purely because the internet is largely uncontrolled and you need to exercise you brain in full knowledge of what you may find there and the potential complications. Let's be clear here you do not accidentally find such images from usual browsing.

You must be new here. Let me ask you this, do you run a popup blocker, adblock or a browser not from the past? Because we seem to live with a very different Internet.

I take it you don't use youtube?

Never been trolled into ******* or goaste?

So the first one: was a bloke who was illegally downloading a pornographic film of unknown content - here's thought if he wanted porn why not buy it - the porn industry is rather well self regulated in the States because they are aware of the problems if they were to let that slide.

It's a case of downloading a file with one name and getting something else. You've never done that? You only download media you pay for I take it?

And the second link I didn't bother with because I was specifically talking about image depicting actual child abuse not pictorial gratification when in fact the scientific evidence suggest such images may actually reduce offense rates. The other links cover attempted framing of individuals where the true story was found out. If I were to frame you for murder then that is hardly justification to remove murder as an offense it is cause to properly address such actions and maybe open a debate on the naming of such individuals prior to establishment of guilt.

Yeah, because I didn't mention Lisa Simpson several times or anything.

 

[Egon]

Read thread title - My response "Doesn't sound good."
Read OP - My response "Dear me, this gets worse."
Read article - My response "Over sensationalised thread title and OP."

Religious thread then degenerates to usual GD levels.

 

[Xordium]

Right I get it, you're happy accept something that fairly faulty but published and not anything else. Yeah, like I originally said.

No I accept it with its limitations and accept other things with their limitations and weigh their strengths accordingly. That surely is what examining the evidence is about?

You must be new here. Let me ask you this, do you run a popup blocker, adblock or a browser not from the past? Because we seem to live with a very different Internet.

I take it you don't use youtube?

I do use an adblocker I also use Youtube and still since the last post have yet to see child abuse on the internet. Maybe if I used some more leading search terms I would get some illegal content but strangely enough I won't do that because that would be actively looking which of course would never fall into your accidentally found argument.

It's a case of downloading a file with one name and getting something else. You've never done that? You only download media you pay for I take it?

Nope, never done that I am quite fussy what I download because I fully understand the problems and therefore have a great belief in determining the credibillity of who placed the file into the public domain - I don't get nasty viruses that way.

And yes I only download media I pay for or that I know is legally offered free through a reputable source or as part of subscription service because I rather like the media I do download and like to think that the people who do a good job deserve some recognition for their work and a living wage.

 

[RDM]

Read article - My response "Over sensationalised thread title and OP."

I'm not so sure, as it is coming from a man high up n an organisation already complicit in covering up crimes suggesting that people that commit these crimes need help rather than punishment makes you think that cover ups could still happen. Couple that with the recent Cardinal O'Brien situation where once again the church would rather cover things up and keep victims quiet to save face it makes a very worrying position.

 

[aln]

I do use an adblocker I also use Youtube and still since the last post have yet to see child abuse on the internet. Maybe if I used some more leading search terms I would get some illegal content but strangely enough I won't do that because that would be actively looking which of course would never fall into your accidentally found argument.

Thats nonsense. You don't have to be activley looking for child porn to come across it, you just have to click a link that you're told leads to something else.

Nope, never done that I am quite fussy what I download because I fully understand the problems and therefore have a great belief in determining the credibillity of who placed the file into the public domain - I don't get nasty viruses that way.

Alright, I get it. We need to be super careful what we consume of the Internet because everything everyone links could be something bad. Better be safe, unplug your Internet and burn your computer.

And yes I only download media I pay for or that I know is legally offered free through a reputable source or as part of subscription service because I rather like the media I do download and like to think that the people who do a good job deserve some recognition for their work and a living wage.

And what a shame that is, you'd have been as well using a TV.

Myself, I download all sorts of free **** from all sorts of people because thats what the Internet is about, and for the most part I'm pretty sure I'm way better off for it.

You frown on the fact I grabbed my OS ISO from newsgroups?

 

[Scougar]

Sounds to me that his words were taken completely out of context.

He said 'criminal condition' rather than criminal. I've not looked, but I imagine he's foreign and things don't always come across perfectly either. To me, he's saying they are sick in the head, and need treatment (as well as jail), rather than just being a criminal, who are generally motivated by greed.

And no, I'm not defending him in any way at all, but I don't like seeing people misrepresented either.

 

[Xordium]

Thats nonsense. You don't have to be activley looking for child porn to come across it, you just have to click a link that you're told leads to something else.

Except I have never had that happen nor know anyone that this has happened to - unless your voracious defense of the possibility indicates you have found such material. If so just say so - it would help me may understand under what circumstances people can accidentally find kiddyporn.

Alright, I get it. We need to be super careful what we consume of the Internet because everything everyone links could be something bad. Better be safe, unplug your Internet and burn your computer.

Which was not what I said - I would also suggest leaving the house and going out and about - I would however expect people to exercise caution late at night in dark alleys, when crossing a busy road and when driving a car in unfamiliar places.

And what a shame that is, you'd have been as well using a TV.

Can't get spotify though my TV, I can however get the programs I am interested in but it is far easier to download them and watch them at my leisure.

Myself, I download all sorts of free **** from all sorts of people because thats what the Internet is about, and for the most part I'm pretty sure I'm way better off for it.

You frown on the fact I grabbed my OS ISO from newsgroups?

No, I don't frown on it that is your choice but if that iso then happens to be mislabelled and contain a volume of kiddyporn then I fully expect that you would have some serious explaining to do if found out.

 

[aln]

Except I have never had that happen nor know anyone that this has happened to - unless your voracious defense of the possibility indicates you have found such material. If so just say so - it would help me may understand under what circumstances people can accidentally find kiddyporn.

I never attempted to deny I haven't seen / been linked to some outragous material on the Internet. Thats my entire point. I've been active on the Internet for a good 13+ years, largely mixing on gaming forums with people who are *********. ******* and ****** are just two examples, but /b/ is another.

Sure the likes of popup blockers and adblock have helped this, but you seem to have an entirly naive outlook. You could not do anything about forums.overclockers.co.uk being rooted and the forum being replacing with child porn. You however could still very well be prosecuted by not successfully rewriting over the free space on your drive after deleting said images like the first kid was over the limeware scandle.

Which was not what I said - I would also suggest leaving the house and going out and about - I would however expect people to exercise caution late at night in dark alleys, when crossing a busy road and when driving a car in unfamiliar places.

First of all, living in fear sucks. Secondly, people don't do bad things to you when you go out and about because most people are either decent or fear repercussions. I take it your not familiar with the internet ****wad theory?

Can't get spotify though my TV, I can however get the programs I am interested in but it is far easier to download them and watch them at my leisure.

You can do all of the above with a TV. Maybe not your TV, thats unfortunate. It was a sarcastic point anyway. I assume you don't game? Never downloaded a community patch or mod? Never consumed free media released for on the web by random people as opposed to large media companies? I dare say you're missing out.

No, I don't frown on it that is your choice but if that iso then happens to be mislabelled and contain a volume of kiddyporn then I fully expect that you would have some serious explaining to do if found out.

That is the explanation. I was downloading debian, some idiot uploaded a fake one, the checksum didn't match so I deleted it. Those checksums are provided for a reason, you know? The extreme difference is, I can still be prosecuted despite the fact I never opened or consumed the file in anyway, even after I deleted it, just by my failure to ensure it could not be recovered from my hard drive.

If you believe "data expert" companies (I don't they're liars) that pretty much means I need to write over the entire contents of my disk with random data several times. I'm pretty sure you only need to do it once, but thats still a ridiculous action due to ridiculous regulations.

 

[kedge]

Well you tell me which story of creation it is that you believe in, and I'll tell you why you're wrong.

Biblical creation is what i believe, nothing more to add, yes it can not be proved either way using the time tested scientific method. You can tell me i'm wrong but that doesn't make you right.

Well "natural" is something not caused or made by humans.

Everything is caused by unobservable forces or by something or by someone. Dead inert lifeless matter can not arise by itself, life can only come from previous life and this is called the law of biogenesis, none of these laws have ever been refuted, they stand. These natural laws that are universal govern our lives and obviate matter appearing from nothing.

If matter and anti-matter can annihilate, giving no matter at all, one could assume that the process is reversible, and therefore something can come from nothing.

one could assume.

Assumptions yeah. Nothing wrong with assuming anything, don't make it fact though.

Is religion factual? I work only on the provable, not the unprovable.

Probably not. Did the universe just evolve? did life just appear from nowhere? there is no scientific evidence to prove this as fact. We beg to differ, simple as that really.

 

[Tefal]

If matter and anti-matter can annihilate, giving no matter at all, one could assume that the process is reversible, and therefore something can come from nothing..

except they don't go to nothing they go to their equal amount of energy follow e=mc^2, so in reverse to "create something from nothing" you'd actually have to have an equal amount of energy to convert.

 

[Tefal]

The real science the scientific method tells me quite clearly that our lives are governed by natural laws such as cause and effect, the universe was caused and life was caused, i believe that cause to be God, God is immaterial He is outside of the material world, science does not and cannot support evolution from nothing, in an evolutionary framework and using the real science, how did the universe get to be here? what was its cause?.

so what caused god?

I really just don't see the point in stepping back the whole cause one extra layer to again something without a cause.

but whatever floats your boat.

 

[aln]

so what caused god?

I really just don't see the point in stepping back the whole cause one extra layer to again something without a cause.

but whatever floats your boat.

God's god. Repeat to infinity.


You're right though, thats the nail in the coffin of the argument.

Either:

The universe has always been / was created from nothing / something happened we don't understand.

or

God has always been / was created from nothing / something happened we don't understand.


Pretty much shows how broken that argument is.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Biblical creation is what i believe, nothing more to add, yes it can not be proved either way using the time tested scientific method. You can tell me i'm wrong but that doesn't make you right.

Biblical creation has been 100% proven as wrong. Indisputable. You are unbelievably stupid if you disagree. The idea that the whole universe could be created in 7 days is just beyond a joke. There are infinite pieces of evidence to dispute your claims.

Everything is caused by unobservable forces or by something or by someone. Dead inert lifeless matter can not arise by itself, life can only come from previous life and this is called the law of biogenesis, none of these laws have ever been refuted, they stand. These natural laws that are universal govern our lives and obviate matter appearing from nothing.

Can you tell me, then, what the difference is between matter that is alive and isn't (carbon is not inert, by the way). The difference is electrical and chemical signals, which are present in nature.

Assumptions yeah. Nothing wrong with assuming anything, don't make it fact though.

Probably not. Did the universe just evolve? did life just appear from nowhere? there is no scientific evidence to prove this as fact. We beg to differ, simple as that really.

It doesn't make it fact, but it's the current theory, I believe.

Yes the universe evolved as it has changed since it came into existence. You are right that there is limited evidence, however, the existing evidence points towards the theory that I have stated and some other theories, not a god.

except they don't go to nothing they go to their equal amount of energy follow e=mc^2, so in reverse to "create something from nothing" you'd actually have to have an equal amount of energy to convert.

Thank you for clearing that up for me. So how does this theory work?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The question of how the universe came into existence is incomplete, but we get closer the the answer every day. The answer is not the easiest answer you can possibly conceive of ie. something else just put it there. Come on man, there is more to the earth than this ridiculously simplistic BS you're claiming as truth. Once again I state, your church (if ou are catcholic or christian) does NOT support you.

 

[Tefal]

Thank you for clearing that up for me. So how does this theory work?

what theory?

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The theory that matter comes from no matter

 

[aln]

The theory that matter comes from no matter

No, it wouldn't be no matter it'd be negative matter. When massive blackholes go bang.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Fair enough

 

[Tefal]

The theory that matter comes from no matter

there is no such theory, there is one that you can convert energy to matter and vis versa.

matter and energy are interchangeable calculable via e=mc^2 this is the principal nuclear weapons work off of.

energy is cannot be created or destroyed only changed form.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

Hmm I wish I knew the name of the theory...it does exist haha!