Carmack vows to move from pc to xb360

Soldato
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Carmack vows to move primary dev from pc to xb360

This was posted on another forum so I thought it would be worth posting here.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2164&Itemid=2

I think quake4 was a good example of the move, seemingly more like a console game than a real pc FPS, full of bugs etc.
iDsoftware have only released 1 patch since release which only fixes ui problems. Seems to me the decision to almost abandon the pc market was made then :(.
It's a shame really as FPS games on consoles just don't seem to work as well as using a mouse and keyboard on a pc, altho I guess they could possibly introduce some good restrictions into stopping cheats on consoles.

The Xbox 360 will probably will be id's primary development platform
 
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He smells money, more people buy console games than they do PC games.

Least we still have Valve :)

XBOX360 wont be a really good development platform when DX10 comes out (Although as someone has just pointed out (OpenGL), unless ID plans to stay in the past?
 
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Tbh on quake4 they did nail the fps on a console, slow/easy to do/dont have to move much. I 'spose its also a lot easier to go the console route, not having to worry about covering a wide range of pc specs, enableing it to run its best on one universal machine.

And as you said, cheating on a console is not as common, especially online, which is even more of a nudge for them to move over.
 
ben_j_davis said:
He smells money, more people buy console games than they do PC games.

Least we still have Valve :)

XBOX360 wont be a really good development platform when DX10 comes out, unless ID plans to stay in the past?


The 360 can utilize DX10 I believe.
 
I just lost all the respect I previously had for Carmack, god damn traitor!

/target John Carmack
/spit
/golfclap
 
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Interesting, and it's good news for us

@OP
He doesn't "vow to move" in an interview I read (prob the same) he simply said

All of our tools are on the PC, and we’re maintaining the game running on the PC, but probably all of our gameplay development and testing will be done on the Xbox 360.
This means no change surely? They'll still release PC games, who cares what they dev'd it on. If anything the new consoles are going to improve PC gaming because of

  • Competition / quality of games
  • Cross platform games before were often produced say, to the PS2/Xbox spec and fiddled "up" to the PC spec. Now hopefully the basic spec of a game will be higher and needs to be cut "down" to the PC spec.

John Carmack loves new technology, this is new technology, he wants to use it. Awwww MIGSY! Why is he a traitor! It's not like he was our beeeotch.

@mortals
And another thing, they've released about 1 1/2 patches ;) I've been enjoying it online and offline, what bugs are there that I should have come across? From your other post it sounds like you just simply butchered your config (like me.)
 
NutritioN said:
@OP
He doesn't "vow to move" in an interview I read (prob the same) he simply said


This means no change surely? They'll still release PC games, who cares what they dev'd it on. If anything the new consoles are going to improve PC gaming because of

  • Competition / quality of games
  • Cross platform games before were often produced say, to the PS2/Xbox spec and fiddled "up" to the PC spec. Now hopefully the basic spec of a game will be higher and needs to be cut "down" to the PC spec.

John Carmack loves new technology, this is new technology, he wants to use it. Awwww MIGSY! Why is he a traitor! It's not like he was our beeeotch.

@mortals
And another thing, they've released about 1 1/2 patches ;) I've been enjoying it online and offline, what bugs are there that I should have come across? From your other post it sounds like you just simply butchered your config (like me.)
here's a list for people who seem to have missed the previous posts about the bugs. (at a quick count there's 25 ?? pretty good for a game that was released months ago?? good support?? good bug testing??)

My other post was about the bugs in singleplayer (no crosshair, lighting issues etc)

Bugs:
Network
X-No control on the numbers of packet sent to the server, always at 60, a number that floods 64k upstream or sometimes even better connections to a laged 999 ping state. Solution, provide a command like quake3 cl_maxpackets.

Server Related Issues
X-Any client who does not have at least the pk4 (basic and customs) that are on the server will not be able to connect at all, even if the pk4 are not currently in use (maps...)
Any client who has some pk4 the server does not have will get an useless game shutdown step and vid restart.
The download of pk4 from the server or from another url (would have been nice) is broken.
Any client running another mod (fs_game) than the server will experience game shutdowns and restarts indefinitely. Only alt-f4 seems to break the loop.
X-The var net_serversnapshotdelay seems to be very approximative, and to treat wide intervals of the var with the same packets rate instead of using provided values.

Game Issues
X-During a CTF as well as a TDM game a spectator can open console and can change their "ui_team" to either strogg and marine, and read in on the team chat of said team.
X-When playing TDM names appear blank instead of displaying the player's real nick.
X-A player sometimes sees their teammates in an enemy model. (eg: strogg sees his teammate, who should be strogg, as a marine, but still has the teammate icon overhead)
X-g_voteFlags does not have any affect.
X-Bobbing cvars are server-side (I'll mention it, but I don't think it'll be changed)
X-Impressive award sometimes gets awared even if you hit a shot, miss, and hit.
X-When telefragged, hud message will show you were killed by the telefragger's weapon.
X-When a player dies, their death grunt will be repeated a lot faster than normal and ontop of eachother.

In-game Server Browser
Fixed- Support for only 1000 servers.
Fixed- In-game server browser window does not relate to the appropriate server.
Fixed- No scrolling support for arrow keys and scroll-wheel.

Weapons
X- LG sound (randomly?) loops, only fixable by map restart (replication unknown)
X- Zoom mode stays toggled on the zoomable weapon. Switching from a zoomable weapon to a nonzoomable weapon and back to a zoomable weapon, the zoom will still be toggled on.

Demos
X- Scores are not displayed
X- No POV identity displayed
X- When playing a netdemo, the viewer's name and clan tag will change to the name and clan tag of the player in the demo.
X- After netdemo playback is done you are stuck with a full-screened console.

X-Netdemo changes local parameters (more than just name/clan tag). Such as lighting, brightness, and showgun. bloated netcode?
X-Netdemo playback is lagged, sometimes rail trails are missing, as are the rocket launcher's projectile.


Scoreboard and related
X- Gauntlet kills don't show in "Most Used Weapons" list after game's end
X-Death messages sometimes don't appear on the HUD
X-Stats for other players are not always shown at the end of a game (sometimes no stats for players are kept).

Sound Issues
X- Game sounds get dropped. This may be due to system limitations, but it should prioritise. Eg, ambient sounds should drop before footstep sounds, footstep sounds should drop before weapon sounds, weapon sounds should drop before player hit sounds.
X-Hitsounds and crosshair indication aren't consisten (most notably with the lg)
X-Footsteps sounds are also inconsistent (most noticeable by fast movement input)
 
Thanks, that's what I wanted; hmmmm, a few I've experienced then. Most annoying ones involve conecting to a server (pk4 related, loading loops etc.)

Just out of interest bug fixing side of things - where did you get that list? Or is it yours? Do you know if there's much hope of things getting sorted? Was all this stuff fine in Q3?

Thanks for the info.
 
NutritioN said:
Thanks, that's what I wanted; hmmmm, a few I've experienced then. Most annoying ones involve conecting to a server (pk4 related, loading loops etc.)

Just out of interest bug fixing side of things - where did you get that list? Or is it yours? Do you know if there's much hope of things getting sorted? Was all this stuff fine in Q3?

Thanks for the info.
If as carmack said they are going to be moving their main development and testing to xbox360 I'd guess there isn't much hope for a patch.

I was playing it for a few weeks after the release with some peeps who I knew from quake3, hoping they would patch it but when the patch came out all that was fixed was the gamebrowser which no one used anyway.

There are also lots more bugs I think :( after playing all of the quake series this was such a dissapointing game, on the whole it seems to be made based around use on a console as said above. But to make it worse there is a massive number of bugs.

Also the lighting system seems messed up, if you have ever tried the single light maps you will see a massive difference in fps, resulting in better gameplay.

I don't think there are any of these bugs in quake3, altho quake3 wasn't perfect to begin with, the bugs did at least get fixed.
 
ben_j_davis said:
He smells money, more people buy console games than they do PC games.

Least we still have Valve :)

To be honest I don't really blame him. Id has developed for the PC primarily for years producing some of our most favourite games. They are not a charity, and I would imagine it's pretty disheartening to see a game that you have spent a lot of time, money and effort making, being downloaded a hundred thousand times on torrent sites on the morning of release.

As far as I'm concerned it's another kick in the teeth for the PC games industry.
 
Can't say I blame him in the wake of Doom3. I read an article recently with him saying that he said that he was considering concentrating on the console platform and forgetting the PC. He regards consoles less risk.

Whether we agree with this or not, ID lost ££ over the one of the most anticipated games for years, which became available in the Uk illegally even before it's launch. We are victims to those who continue to supply and use pirated software.

In stark contrast, Valve took precautionary measures to introduce Steam as a delivery system. Like or loath it, if it helps to combat game piracy, and the money is invested back with the developer, then long may we await the exciting prospects such as Sin Episode etc.. which can’t be bad but for ID, it looks a dead end.
 
could be hope if you can use a usb keyboard and mouse on xbox360 tho :)
(be nice if peeps could use their current pc mice etc :) ) at least there would be a nice competitive edge still in using gaming mice etc, a gamepad just isn't really a good replacement for a kb+mouse.

altho I wouldn't want to spend £200+ on a console setup atm :( there are some benefits to consoles I guess, it's just a massive blow to pc gaming :(
 
Well Age of empire 3 has just sold over 1 millions copys, so that just goes to prove that there is still a lot of money to be made in the PC market.

The thing you have to remember with the PC market, it is that it is a lot more intergrated with the internet, so if you get a bad write up on the net and it starts to spread this could really hurt your sales.

Thats the reason i didnt get Doom3 cos word of mouth at the time said it was terrible.
 
ID's recent games Doom 3 and Quake 4 have been rubbish so who cares what he does frankly.. ID seem more interested in producing game engines which they can licence to other developers than making a decent game.
 
dirtydog said:
ID seem more interested in producing game engines which they can licence to other developers than making a decent game.

Indeed.... Quake4 isn't actually an id designed game for that matter :)

But it's still important for me that he keeps developing engines for the PC platform, because they have spawned a whole host of excellent games such as Halflife and CoD.
 
I shouldn't worry about the move 2 the x-box since it is an ideal platform for all action and non-thinking games or all eye-candy and nothing else. Let's face it, quake isn't quite up to the standards of Unreal or Far cry is it. :D
 
well on the one hand it seems a shame.
it's our loss (the PC gameing crowd).

on the other hand, this fella probably did more than most to further the PC games industry. if he's protecting his future fortune, well he earned it already in my book.
 
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