Cars with mods that are not declared

OpenToSuggestions · 9 May 2012 at 18:21

Hey all.

I've always been one to have OCD with my car. Even my old Micra was clean inside and out, had good bodywork and more importantly, properly insured.

Recently I spoke to Adrian Flux about a remap on a TDCI Focus and the prices were not good as whilst I am 24 with 2 years NCB, the best prices come to those with 3+ years NCB and are 25+ years old. Fair enough, such is life - I may not bother with the remap.

I see no end of chavved up cars driving around. Saxos with big rims, Corsas with big exhausts, 1990s poor man spec 3 Series with immitation M-Sport rims and tinted windows etc., yet I never hear/read about insurance claims having issues with this, as by looking at the teenagers driving them no way are those modifications declared.

I just wondered if anyone has known of any situations of insurers refusing to pay up? I always had the view that they would look for any reason to void a policy.

Zero Pope · 9 May 2012 at 18:24

Yep, my sister used to work for a specialist insurance company. She worked in the claims dept and had someone phone up with an R32 skyline they'd spent about £4-5000 on mods wise. They hadn't declared them and written the car off. The guy got shafted and lost all that money for trying to save a few quid. There were smaller claims as well, kids with alloys or lowered suspension and they'd get nothing as well. It does happen, it's just not as wide spread news I guess.

Vonhelmet · 9 May 2012 at 18:27

It depends on the mods. Some mods won't need to be declared. Does a fart box exhaust need to be? I don't know. You'd need to check your specific insurers Ts and Cs.

Disco Boy · 9 May 2012 at 18:33

These threads all go the same way with people talking about whether you should declare changing from the OEM tyres etc... It's so tedious.

OpenToSuggestions · 9 May 2012 at 18:42

Disco Boy said:
These threads all go the same way with people talking about whether you should declare changing from the OEM tyres etc... It's so tedious.

I am talking about obvious things such as wheels and exhausts, plus remaps.

Whilst remaps are not obvious as the car remains visually identical, surely the ECU would be scanned to check this? I bet some people play ignorance and say how were they supposed to know it was mapped.

A close friend has had his Golf MK4 PD150 remapped to circa 185hp for 4years now and has never declared it. What I feel is more daft is the dump valve he has had fitted, not only does it through up all sorts of errors on the dashboard but there is lots of thin blue piping all over the engine bay - It is bloody obvious that it has been modded.

Joshy · 9 May 2012 at 18:58

Young teenagers driving saxos, corsas and E36 BMWs or any other cheaply bought and modified car are almost certainly on TPF&T policies and with the price of insurance premiums these days, it almost certainly would not make financial sense to claim on the policy even if the car was stolen (A £1,000 car vs 5 years of loaded premiums and loss of NCB) meaning that they don't really have to worry an awful lot about a pay out from their insurance company being denied as they weren't going to get one in the first place!

OpenToSuggestions · 9 May 2012 at 19:11

Joshy said:
Young teenagers driving saxos, corsas and E36 BMWs or any other cheaply bought and modified car are almost certainly on TPF&T policies and with the price of insurance premiums these days, it almost certainly would not make financial sense to claim on the policy even if the car was stolen (A £1,000 car vs 5 years of loaded premiums and loss of NCB) meaning that they don't really have to worry an awful lot about a pay out from their insurance company being denied as they weren't going to get one in the first place!

What if they cause a £1,000,000 pile up on the motorway? Then others will be claiming off them.

wingman · 9 May 2012 at 19:13

Joshy said:
Young teenagers driving saxos, corsas and E36 BMWs or any other cheaply bought and modified car are almost certainly on TPF&T policies and with the price of insurance premiums these days, it almost certainly would not make financial sense to claim on the policy even if the car was stolen (A £1,000 car vs 5 years of loaded premiums and loss of NCB) meaning that they don't really have to worry an awful lot about a pay out from their insurance company being denied as they weren't going to get one in the first place!

What if the car was a write off and was taken in by the insurance company, only to discover the car has been modified? This would no doubt void any insurance if the insurance didn't account for any modifications.

Something Else · 9 May 2012 at 19:20

i have all mods declared on my car, im 21 and my insurance is £500, my renewal quote was £1500!! told them to shove that, iam on a limited mileage policy though of 3k but i have only done 1.5k in 6 months and the policy ends in july

g60dubster · 9 May 2012 at 19:23

wingman said:
What if the car was a write off and was taken in by the insurance company, only to discover the car has been modified? This would no doubt void any insurance if the insurance didn't account for any modifications.

insurers can't really void third party liability unless in really extreme circumstances especially after a 3rd party claim.

Joshy · 9 May 2012 at 19:26

OpenToSuggestions said:
What if they cause a £1,000,000 pile up on the motorway? Then others will be claiming off them.

Their insurance company is required to pay for the third party damages regardless. They can recoup the costs from the driver if they see fit, but it is a messy process that I can only imagine an insurance company doing in the event of a very high cost 3rd party claim where they'd already be itching to wriggle out of a claim if they found a single t not crossed and an i not dotted. A fart can exhaust and lowering springs just makes it easier for them.

wingman said:
What if the car was a write off and was taken in by the insurance company, only to discover the car has been modified? This would no doubt void any insurance if the insurance didn't account for any modifications.

This is the point I'm making. If you're the third party in an accident and have some brain cells you'll know to have an accident management company deal with your claim and by pass your insurance company. If you're the one that caused the accident you've got to hope that they don't bother to inspect your car, which again, in a normal third party claim is fairly unlikely.

OpenToSuggestions · 9 May 2012 at 20:19

Do they actually check engines for modified software? I intend to declare a remap but so many people don't bother at all as they reckon it cannot be proven. I think otherwise.

Kenai · 9 May 2012 at 20:27

g60dubster said:
insurers can't really void third party liability unless in really extreme circumstances especially after a 3rd party claim.

They can seek to recover the costs from you subsequently though, having filled that obligation, can they not?

OpenToSuggestions said:
Do they actually check engines for modified software? I intend to declare a remap but so many people don't bother at all as they reckon it cannot be proven. I think otherwise.

If you can plug something in and write/upload a map, you can sure as hell plug something in and read/download a map. Whether they would bother is an entirely different prospect but I really don't think there is much of a technical barrier to them doing it.

rodenal · 9 May 2012 at 21:40

That's alwaus been my take on it, I'm sure 90% of the time they would never look for or find a remap but would you really want to be worrying about something like that being found after a fairly serious accident? (I know you're not proposing to btw). I find mine even with mainstream insurers makes next to no difference to the cost. If you get it done partway through a policy there tends to be a heavier hit - just because they can.

Minstadave · 9 May 2012 at 21:46

How many cars are floating around with remaps that the current owner has no knowledge of? My car could easily be remapped and I would never know.

rodenal · 9 May 2012 at 21:56

Always a possibility but lets face it, its pretty likely you'd realise if you'd ever driven or been in the same car. Unless its a na petrol there's a big change.

Given its just software i wouldn't expect it would be too difficult to extract some sort of date if they went to the trouble of reading the map on there. I reckon its pretty unlikely they would even look tbh unless there were other signs the car had undeclared mods but even so I really pay a minimal if any premium for mine.

Begbie · 9 May 2012 at 22:21

Kenai said:
They can seek to recover the costs from you subsequently though, having filled that obligation, can they not?

If you can plug something in and write/upload a map, you can sure as hell plug something in and read/download a map. Whether they would bother is an entirely different prospect but I really don't think there is much of a technical barrier to them doing it.

If the car is smashed up, not much chance of doing that though.

Dandle · 9 May 2012 at 22:24

Minstadave said:
How many cars are floating around with remaps that the current owner has no knowledge of? My car could easily be remapped and I would never know.

That is true but if they go to the effort to see if its mapped surely it would also tell them the date it was done.

Semple · 9 May 2012 at 22:29

I was under the impression that if a mod added value or more power to the car then it had to be declared. I.E a backbox that makes a bit more noise but no extra power didn't need to be declared, tinted windows won't add any value to the car so didn't need to be declared.

OpenToSuggestions · 9 May 2012 at 22:31

Dandle said:
That is true but if they go to the effort to see if its mapped surely it would also tell them the date it was done.

Whilst I agree, you could still plead ignorance on how it got there.

Semple said:
I was under the impression that if a mod added value or more power to the car then it had to be declared. I.E a backbox that makes a bit more noise but no extra power didn't need to be declared, tinted windows won't add any value to the car so didn't need to be declared.

Adrian Flux told me today that tints do count.