CCNA vs Bsc

[sja360]

I met a guy in my last job who had a degree and was talking about Multicast, IGMPv2 enhancements, PIM and CBT... Going on for ages about various ways it can be used, when I asked him what kind of box he'd configured it on, he had never been near a router. Seems like a waste of time to me

yea that sounds like someone who has read up on all the protocols etc, but when someone asks do this, they're like eh how?
a lot of people in my college class doing two of the mcsa courses are like that. i dont want to sound cocky because i already know it so i have to play dumb sometimes. also helps them out in the long run if they learn themselves. only reason i have to do this hnd (or 3rd year at uni) is because experience alone wont just get you a job.

 

[Lummux]

ok lets cut through some of the crap.

This is for when you are starting off in the industry, once you have a few years experience that will win over anything else.

I did a placement year for Uni last year as a network admin, then at the end of the year my boss left. So now I am doing my last year of Uni and managing the IT department for a fairly large solicitors, (I believe there in the top 5% in size), so I have experience of this.

Basically if you have passion for IT you will have messed around with all sorts of stuff, so you can talk for ages in an interview, which is good. If you have done certs that’s also good as it shows you are keen. But a degree gives you tremendous background to the industry, I’m on Computer Network Management and Design (Portsmouth Uni) currently and it is both practical and academic. There are also certain companies which I deal with that wont even look at CV unless they have a degree or a few years experience, so don’t discount a degree as it can be your meal ticket.

Another thing to bear in mind is making contacts, in my experience a lot of positions aren’t advertised these days but done by recommendation, although I cant really back that up.

Both routes will work Uni or doing certs, but I think Uni will make you more employable initally as long as you choose the correct course

So basically I’m agreeing with sja360, I think!

 

[sja360]

So basically I’m agreeing with sja360, I think!

lol
i have to wonder though, see if someone has work experience with hp or ibm at thier callcentres for 2 years, and someone else has a years experience with a local pc shop fixing and selling parts. which would be more beneficial as a hands on engineer? as atm i only have the latter but with 2 and abit years experience, and im wondering if that actually counts for something
i have used pc's since i was about 11-12 playing games originally then networking them
then i just started to look into overclocking slightly, and from that im a addict to the hardware.. luckily i dont have the cash atm for upgrading though

 

[Si MPS]

Basically if you have passion for IT you will have messed around with all sorts of stuff, so you can talk for ages in an interview, which is good. If you have done certs that’s also good as it shows you are keen. But a degree gives you tremendous background to the industry, I’m on Computer Network Management and Design (Portsmouth Uni) currently and it is both practical and academic. There are also certain companies which I deal with that wont even look at CV unless they have a degree or a few years experience, so don’t discount a degree as it can be your meal ticket.

I completley and utterly agree with this. my comment about being bored was a flippant joke, i will still probably get into IT, im not exactly a brainless nut (unlike some of my course mates)

 

[Lummux]

Sorry one last thing to mention in getting a job in IT is its not just technical ability but people skills.
Some one with no people skills but massive technical knowledge will be less employable than someone with less technical knowledge but good people skills.

 

[sja360]

Sorry one last thing to mention in getting a job in IT is its not just technical ability but people skills.
Some one with no people skills but massive technical knowledge will be less employable than someone with less technical knowledge but good people skills.

depends on the job though, as a field engineer will require good people skills unlike say a network admin? as the network admin will be able to use technicial speak to other colleagues unlike a field engineer who has to translate all the technicial jargon to customers.

 

[Lummux]

lol
i have to wonder though, see if someone has work experience with hp or ibm at thier callcentres for 2 years, and someone else has a years experience with a local pc shop fixing and selling parts. which would be more beneficial as a hands on engineer? as atm i only have the latter but with 2 and abit years experience, and im wondering if that actually counts for something
i have used pc's since i was about 11-12 playing games originally then networking them
then i just started to look into overclocking slightly, and from that im a addict to the hardware.. luckily i dont have the cash atm for upgrading though

Yeah everything counts! Just push your self!
Install 2003 and make a domain, why? because then you have some experience in it!
Although IBM/HP are great names to have on your CV you will be doing one thing with them the whole time, where as the computer shop will have you doing all sorts. Its swings and round abouts. Although as long as you have done something and you haven’t been sat on your ass complaining you cant get an IT job then it’s a bonus.
And like I say get out there make contacts, the more people that know your name the more likely some one will give it to an employer whos recruiting. And at the end of the day if some one is recommended then they have an advantage over all the other potentials because some one has put there credibility behind your skills.

 

[Lummux]

depends on the job though, as a field engineer will require good people skills unlike say a network admin? as the network admin will be able to use technicial speak to other colleagues unlike a field engineer who has to translate all the technicial jargon to customers.

No not really a network admin will have to deal with his bosses, technical people and users in most cases.

 

[Vanilla]

They are two different things.

A Bsc is a degree. Ultimately a degree does not train you for the work place in a given field, it is education. It is about learning the theoretical aspects of your chosen area and demonstrating your knowledge though exams and coursework. Very little of what you learn at university can be considered as hands on training, they don't show you how to set up an exchange database, how to zone a switch or how to concatenate a lun.

They will show you about the various stacks in the IT world, put you into teams to complete various projects and teach you the basics of things such as programming. It's putting away three years towards a technical subject to show your dedication and learning in that field.

A CCNA would be considered as training. It does contain a lot of theory that is interesting but I would easily class it as training you to do a job. It is very valuable, but remember it is limited to the IP Network level. COnsider doing the equivalent Cisco courses at the SAN level. Data growth is immense in our day and age and decent admins are in high demand. CCNA's are popular but not many people do the storage side of things.

Personally I say do the degree AND the CCNA. THe degree says more about you as a person while the CCNA (do the storage equivalent!) gives you some hands on experience.

 

[Lummux]

They are two different things.

A Bsc is a degree. Ultimately a degree does not train you for the work place in a given field, it is education. It is about learning the theoretical aspects of your chosen area and demonstrating your knowledge though exams and coursework. Very little of what you learn at university can be considered as hands on training, they don't show you how to set up an exchange database, how to zone a switch or how to concatenate a lun.

They will show you about the various stacks in the IT world, put you into teams to complete various projects and teach you the basics of things such as programming. It's putting away three years towards a technical subject to show your dedication and learning in that field.

A CCNA would be considered as training. It does contain a lot of theory that is interesting but I would easily class it as training you to do a job. It is very valuable, but remember it is limited to the IP Network level. COnsider doing the equivalent Cisco courses at the SAN level. Data growth is immense in our day and age and decent admins are in high demand. CCNA's are popular but not many people do the storage side of things.

Personally I say do the degree AND the CCNA. THe degree says more about you as a person while the CCNA (do the storage equivalent!) gives you some hands on experience.

Yeah I agree, although my course is hands on, in the lab I have setup Linux, DNS Servers (BIND), RIP, OSPF, SNMP, Samba, etc..... And I presume some courses use MS stuff. I think the course i'm on has been revised since I started and they use MS stuff in the first year now. And they now have CISCO lab and the lab techs have a Linux qualification that I can’t recall the name of.

 

[Vanilla]

Yeah I agree, although my course is hands on, in the lab I have setup Linux, DNS Servers (BIND), RIP, OSPF, SNMP, Samba, etc..... And I presume some courses use MS stuff. I think the course i'm on has been revised since I started and they use MS stuff in the first year now. And they now have CISCO lab and the lab techs have a Linux qualification that I can’t recall the name of.

Yup, you can do a lot on your own, I did a whole Content Management System.

Problem is that degree's have no uniform teaching. Not only do degree differ greatly depending on the uni but each student can choose different modules, projects, etc. This means employing someone with a degree gives no guarantee of certain technical skills, they have to interview them or read their cv to find out! To the individual a degree gives you the freedom to choose areas you like and show your own projects off.

With the CCNA the curriculum is pre set around the world and you know those who have completed it have done certain modules.

 

[Lummux]

Yup, you can do a lot on your own, I did a whole Content Management System.

Problem is that degree's have no uniform teaching. Not only do degree differ greatly depending on the uni but each student can choose different modules, projects, etc. This means employing someone with a degree gives no guarantee of certain technical skills, they have to interview them or read their cv to find out! To the individual a degree gives you the freedom to choose areas you like and show your own projects off.

With the CCNA the curriculum is pre set around the world and you know those who have completed it have done certain modules.

True but all networking courses for instance will have the basics covered e.g. CCNA modules one and two.

You would always interview someone before you gave them a job.

As for technical ability CCNA only covers networking and as with a degree you can get through having little hands on ability and just learning parrot style.

 

[V-Spec]

I don't disagree with the fact that having a computer related degree is good, I can just see degrees becoming more worthless in the future, the entire degree system has been devalued by people doing sports science and performing arts degrees.
And as I already said, if you want to get a job and get involved with the industry I think that your better off starting from the bottom and working into it, whilst doing a cert, instead of coming out of uni with a massive debt and no experience apart from a placement. I know people who are just finishing Uni who are the same age as me, and i've already got 6 years experience. they've got no experience, and massive debt, and they're still gonna want to do the CCNA anyway.
From my experience of what they teach at Unis in terms of computing, its almost a complete waste of time as its 10 years out of date. I've worked for a college and a university <I'm now involved with JANET> so I have seen many aspects of it.

 

[Lummux]

I don't disagree with the fact that having a computer related degree is good, I can just see degrees becoming more worthless in the future, the entire degree system has been devalued by people doing sports science and performing arts degrees.

lol, yeah i know what you mean or other courses i wont mention in case of offending.
But similarly as has been mentioned the CCNA has been devalued because of colleges and boot camps kicking them out at such a rate.

And as I already said, if you want to get a job and get involved with the industry I think that your better off starting from the bottom and working into it, whilst doing a cert, instead of coming out of uni with a massive debt and no experience apart from a placement. I know people who are just finishing Uni who are the same age as me, and i've already got 6 years experience. they've got no experience, and massive debt, and they're still gonna want to do the CCNA anyway.

but ccna will be a very quick thing as they already know most of it.

From my experience of what they teach at Unis in terms of computing, its almost a complete waste of time as its 10 years out of date. I've worked for a college and a university <I'm now involved with JANET> so I have seen many aspects of it.

That may be true for some uni's but such a sweeping staement isn't accurate for all courses/uni's.

And also as has been mentioned uni isnt just about the technical side. As for the dept what the difference between uni and putting your self through MCSE for example?