Ceramic/Heat wrapping

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 18:46

Thinking of getting my 4 branch either ceramic coated or heat wrapped, to bring engine bay temps down ( i run an open cone) and was just wondering the cons and pros of each? All i know is that heat wrapping can cause HGF due to the heat being dispersed back into the head, can ceramic coating do the same, or is it a safer option? Also any recommendations for places down south, and what sort of price should i aspect?

Ta

Meridian · 15 Jun 2011 at 19:44

The main advantage of ceramic headers is that they're not inflammable - unlike wrapped headers once the wrapping has picked up a nice layer of oil. Insulation-wise I gather there isn't much in it. Anything one will do, the other will: insulation is insulation. I ended up with ceramic because it just seemed tidier.

The company that did these Zircotec, are supposed to be pretty good. Don't know if they do used stuff though, or just new.

M

Sin_Chase · 15 Jun 2011 at 19:49

Would is not be easier to run cold feed or just use some rudimentary heat shielding?

Seems a bit extreme to run an open cone with a little less ambient heat.

GT3 · 15 Jun 2011 at 19:54

Was very impressed with the wrapping on my old VTS exhaust manifold, your eyebrows were no longer singed when opening the bonnet after a thrash which can only be a good thing when your inlet is behind it! You could also touch it without getting burnt!

Don't know about price as mine was a second-hand pre-wrapped manifold! But I imagine ceramic coating is a lot more pricey!

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:06

The exhaust manifold on the F4R is at the back of the engine, directly below the intake, so it greatly effects the temperature of the air entering the throttle body. I've heard heat wrapping can reduce temperatures around the manifold by a 1/3 so it definitely sounds appealing

Sin_Chase said:
Would is not be easier to run cold feed or just use some rudimentary heat shielding?

Seems a bit extreme to run an open cone with a little less ambient heat.

I'm already running a twin CAF for the open cone, but need to get the temperature down on the inlet too. Also looking at making a custom heat shield for the cone too.

Gaijin · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:06

Zircotec'ing costs £££££££'s though.

Doesn't heat wrapping significantly reduce the life of the component though?

I know my Tanabe manifold didn't last particularly long with heat wrapping.

I remember the first drive I had with it on, everyone thought my car was on fire

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:12

Gayjin said:
Zircotec'ing costs £££££££'s though.

Doesn't heat wrapping significantly reduce the life of the component though?

I know my Tanabe manifold didn't last particularly long with heat wrapping.

I remember the first drive I had with it on, everyone thought my car was on fire

If the manifold has bad welds, the extreme heat can crack them. To stop corrosion, its recommended to spray the manifold with high temp paint before wrapping it, and then covering the wrap in a sealant.

And yeah, i believe it smokes quite a bit for the first time running?

Meridian · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:14

Gayjin said:
Zircotec'ing costs £££££££'s though.

I believe that the two parts shown cost about £300 to coat, two and a bit years ago.

M

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:16

Meridian said:
I believe that the two parts shown cost about £300, two and a bit years ago.

M

EDIT: just noticed your first post mentioned you didn't know if they do older stuff, therefore implying the stuff you had done, that £300 was including the price of the manifold and decat? If so, i guess thats not too bad. Can't imagine it being more than £50-£100 just for the coating.

hux · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:23

Zircotec, isn't that where they spray it with some sort of plasma?

Does that reduce the life of your components from heat soak, what about using those gaskets that reduce heat spreading onto other components.

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:29

hux said:
Zircotec, isn't that where they spray it with some sort of plasma?

Does that reduce the life of your components from heat soak, what about using those gaskets that reduce heat spreading onto other components.

I've just been reading up on those, apparently its some sort of gasket that goes inbetween the head and manifold that stops any chance of the head soaking up extreme heat dispersed from the manifold.

Gaijin · 15 Jun 2011 at 20:49

alexisonfire said:
If the manifold has bad welds, the extreme heat can crack them. To stop corrosion, its recommended to spray the manifold with high temp paint before wrapping it, and then covering the wrap in a sealant.

Where the manifold failed - the weld was certainly questionable. Wasn't sprayed or sealed either

alexisonfire said:
And yeah, i believe it smokes quite a bit for the first time running?

Not much! Gained quite a crowd at uni and I ended up leaving it smoking away as I was late for a lecture

Meridian said:
I believe that the two parts shown cost about £300, two and a bit years ago.

Guys on the MLR are mentioning of prices up to £300 to Zirco a tubular manifold on its own. Coupled with the price of the average manifold is £800, far to expensive for the benefit for me to pursue.

Meridian · 15 Jun 2011 at 21:42

alexisonfire said:
EDIT: just noticed your first post mentioned you didn't know if they do older stuff, therefore implying the stuff you had done, that £300 was including the price of the manifold and decat? If so, i guess thats not too bad. Can't imagine it being more than £50-£100 just for the coating.

No, that was £300 on top of the cost of the headers and up-pipe! IIRC. If it worries you a lot I can find the bill. What I meant by "older" was stuff already used. It's obviously easy to plate new stuff, but I don't know how easy it is to clean dirty stuff enough for plating.

M

-Ad- · 15 Jun 2011 at 22:44

alexisonfire said:
If the manifold has bad welds, the extreme heat can crack them. To stop corrosion, its recommended to spray the manifold with high temp paint before wrapping it, and then covering the wrap in a sealant.

And yeah, i believe it smokes quite a bit for the first time running?

See I'm about to spray and wrap my manifold but am still unsure of the correct way to do it, need to read up a little more.

I was planning on wrapping and running it in, then spraying the high temp paint over the top to seal it. That seems to be the correct method from my current research.

LupoLover · 15 Jun 2011 at 22:55

It was £300 to coat my 3" DP and Tubular race manifold on my 1.8T

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 22:55

-Ad- said:
See I'm about to spray and wrap my manifold but am still unsure of the correct way to do it, need to read up a little more.

I was planning on wrapping and running it in, then spraying the high temp paint over the top to seal it. That seems to be the correct method from my current research.

My understanding is that the best way:

Spray entire manifold with high temp paint to protect the metal from corrosion. Soak the heat wrap in water, and apply wet to the manifold, as this enables you too wrap it tighter, its more manageable, and when dry will give a tighter fit. Let it dry for at least 24hours, then seal it with high temp paint.

GT3 · 15 Jun 2011 at 22:56

Wear gloves, as you'll be itching for days otherwise!

Also if manifold is stainless I wouldn't bother with the hi-temp paint before wrapping.

-Ad- · 15 Jun 2011 at 23:14

alexisonfire said:
My understanding is that the best way:

Spray entire manifold with high temp paint to protect the metal from corrosion. Soak the heat wrap in water, and apply wet to the manifold, as this enables you too wrap it tighter, its more manageable, and when dry will give a tighter fit. Let it dry for at least 24hours, then seal it with high temp paint.

But the problem with doing the hi-temp paint first is that the heat wrap will not be fully heated up when you first try to run it in, thus a longer running in period and possibly even during daily driving.

Definately wet it though, but with the moist wrap being in direct contact with the Stainless Steel substrate it will be easier and quicker to run it in. Then remove and spray over the top after running in to seal it up.

alexisonfire · 15 Jun 2011 at 23:15

GT3 said:
Wear gloves, as you'll be itching for days otherwise!

Also if manifold is stainless I wouldn't bother with the hi-temp paint before wrapping.

Agreed & agreed, nasty fibreglass.

Anybody got any recommendations for brands? I heard good stuff about DEI?

-Ad- · 15 Jun 2011 at 23:26

DEI is nice and expensive.

Got mine from Agriemach, cheaper and will do the job just fine. Spending upwards of £80 on wrap and parts just isn't needed.

Also get 1" stuff as it will be much easier to wrap around the mani. More expensive as more is needed, but it's better to do it once rather than have gap which could be detrimental to the integrity of the mani.

Guide here seems ok to give you an idea: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/1...93567-how-install-exhaust-wrap-mishimoto.html

I'm also going to try a closed filter, even though an open one sounds