Changing fortunes for PC gaming..??

[Cutshaw]

Multiplayer games are OK on PC, we are talking about single player focused PC esclusives like we had in the past and liek consoles have now.

By consoles you mean the PS3(I'm of course discounting the Wii). Good exclusive games on the 360? Dead Rising(one of the best games of this generation), the sequel came to the PC. Alan Wake, it's now on pc and it's the definitive version. Fable series, Fable 3 is now on PC and a better version at that. Halo, Forza and Gears of War then? Gears never went over very well with the PC crowd. Halo was another game that was less than explosive on the pc. The pc driving sim crowd have plenty to deal with, but I would say Forza is the most legit example out of the bunch.

What big new exclusives are on the way for the Xbox? Not many.

 

[Amnesia]

Compare Console piracy vs PC

For 2010, the most pirated PC game as reported in this article was Call of Duty: Black Ops, at 4,270,000 downloads via torrents, compared with 930,000 downloads for the XBox 360 version of the same game. It's not surprising then to see that the PC version of Black Ops is estimated to have only made up only 6% of the total sales for the game in the UK for example, while the XBox 360 version accounted for 54% of sales, and the PS3 at 40%.

Quite a big difference, yes? And it is this difference that makes devs choose consoles as pirority.

6% of sales for pc but most pirated
54% of sales for xbox and heavily pirated
40% of sales for ps3 with pretty much zero piracy if any

if less piracy = more sales then why isn't ps3 leading sales figures ?

the way i see it is there is a larger gaming market for ps3 and xbox so thats why they get more sales.
its easier to pirate on the pc so it has more piracy

those stats you posted dont mean less piracy = more sales otherwise ps3 would be leading sales charts in every game.

 

[AWPC]

Wasn't that just the normal timezone stuff? It's been pretty solid for day one until now if that's the case.

I know the announcement of the PC version was leaked, as the registry was added to the client and that's available to anyone to see.

Unfortunately no it was not timezone as both had global release dates on Steam. Dear Esther appeared about 2 hours after Steam & was fully playable start to finish. Alan Wake was almost 24 hours before the official Steam release date & fully playable although it had a few bugs Remedy left in to catch people out. I heard about it on one of the major gfx card websites they were posting screenshots to prove it quite blatantly

Steamworks takes longer if the games have any co-op/mp elements otherwise they tend to appear very quickly unfortunately for SP based games

 

[LokiS]

Compared to itself during late 90s-early 2000s, it was/is in trouble. Far fewer PC exclusives nowadays

Didn't read the whole thread but this caught my eye, I remember reading a article recently and seeing TotalBiscuit talking about how the PC actually has a lot more exclusives to the platform to either of the consoles, it was a pretty long good discussion about it, wish I could remember what video, was on of his daily ones.

As for the whole PC gaming dead crap, it's just that, a load of crap. I've been gaming on PC for a very long time and I'd say I have too many games to play these days than I did before that I can't keep up and it isn't a matter of not having the time to play.

I find that people who constantly make threads about having to need to change pc gaming because its "dieing" are narrow minded or haven't been around on gaming for that long, they pull out brick and mortar sales as evidence and random fanboy articles or crappy PR from somewhere, completely ignoring online sale/digital distribution and falling back onto piracy arguments.

I don't know why I get baited into these threads, the same debunked crap gets spewed out again and again. You could forum search and have the exact same discussion

 

[iv-tecman]

To be fair to me, I never actually created this thread as being narrow minded or looking to get into a discussion about pc gaming “dying” (not dieing) nor did I want to get into a discussion about piracy.

I merely wanted to highlight that PC gaming is certainly getting stronger at this moment in time and its good to see console ports that are well crafted appear and also hear about a true classic genre get some funding.

Its also nice to read about indie titles getting good sales, therefore my creation of this thread was neither narrow minded, wanting to highlight how “dire’ the PC gaming scene is (it isn’t BTW), or even touch on piracy. I’m neither jaded or pro about PC gaming, been PC gaming since 1991 and have enjoyed each and every year and seen its many ups and downs over the years…

 

[ThomBassmonkey]

PC gaming is and always has been better than console gaming.

Graphics are better, mod potential is better, controls are better (and if they're not, you can plug in a pad anyway).

The only two downsides to PC gaming are crashes/glitches because of different hardware and piracy. A well tested game can overcome the crashes and glitches, but I'm sure that it takes a lot more time (and thus money) to properly test a game for PC.

Piracy will probably be a problem for a long time. I'm sure there is something that could be done, maybe something as a part of the bios or something, but I really don't know enough about it. If the PS3 can do it, I'm sure there's a way that a PC could do it, even with different OSs and software.

 

[Random Guy]

...Consoles are definitely not exempt from piracy. However the data we examined in the Scale of Piracy section provides a clear answer to this question...So we cant just bunch up all piracy together - on pc its far worse, to get PC gaming bakc to its former glory, this HAS to be solved to a larger extent than is now.

One thing to add - how can you empirically measure the rate of piracy on the consoles when it works so differently from PCs? Yes, you will see less torrent downloads, but presumable the ISOs downloaded for Consoles will make their way to discs - God knows how many - which will be sold and distributed as much as possible. This is not measurable afaik, so perhaps a disingenuous comparison?

Cliffy B, lead creator at Epic Games, makers of the Unreal Tournament and Gears of Wars series, has been quite outspoken on this topic:...Right now, it makes sense for us to focus on Xbox 360 for a number of reasons...

The main reason surely being that Epic crafted the first System-Seller for the Xbox i.e. Gears of War, and were compensated lucratively for it? So in one respect it is good business, but I do believe that the failure of Epic (and many other first-party developers) to engage with the PC gaming community has led to a very negative attitude from the audience that can only have negatively effected their prospects on the platform. Case in point: UT3 - promised so much, delivered in a buggy state, beta feedback ignored, basic PC functionality ignored etc. No excuse for piracy though, but perhaps a lack of willingness on Epic's part to really tailor their release for the PC market esp. with regard to Digital Distribution of the product.

The reason even Niche games fail is piracy. Look at Rise of Flight - alive and kicking (as niche as it was immediately after its launch), Silent Hunter - dead. One big difference? RoF had the best anti piracy DRM that was never ever cracked (still so!).

This is debatable. A number of Indies have come out and clearly said that they don't care about Piracy. There are many reasons why Niche games can fail, and this still happens on the Console market today - lack of marketing or market-preparation, poor timing etc.

And how is Steam a messiah, or even "sign of good times for PC gaming"? It's just a distributor- like rainforest or Tesco. It has no say in the war aginst pirates which is by far the biggest problem for PC exclusives (single player games).

But it's not just about niche games on PC- Thief, Ghost Recon, R6 were all popular...

Well lets put it this way - it is difficult for any PC gamer to now imagine a world where Steam does not exist. I would argue that Steam is now fundamental to the PC Platform. Many would even argue that it is the saviour. The entry of other players like GOG and Origin just show how much this is true. Valve have first-mover advantage, as well as the good-will and trust of millions of PC gamers - this puts it in a very very strong position, as it helps to steward the digital transition of games delivery in the future as well as a new approach to communities etc.

 

[skullman]

Diablo was out on the PS1

Yeah, and it was poo compared to the pc version.

 

[Tediore]

The PC has more "worth having" exclusives than the Xbox 360.

This.

The PC has the most (and best, although that is purely subjective) exclusives of the major platforms. Not to mention the absolutely enormous back catalogue. Factor in that the PC is the only way to play a lot of games properly (the Mafia series, anyone?) and I'd say the PC's position as a gaming platform is pretty damn strong.

 

[orderoftheflame]

Yeah, and it was poo compared to the pc version.

Not sure what your point is? It being poo doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Borsch]

I've never said "PC gaming is dieing/dying", I've only said that it is not as good as it was in 90s-early 00s. Single pLayer focus projects developed primarily for the PC have nearly dried up. By that I mean something like Max Payne- its engine, control system, level design was ported to consoles, but it's PRIMARY platform was PC. This just does nto happen any more. Ghost Recon, Rainbow6, etc,etc... Steam has nothing to do with this trend, and can not change it.

Arguing about piracy is like arguing about religion it seems- even when put in front of a fact like 10 times more torrents downloads for PC than Xbox, one still "needs to prove" that spaghetti monster really does not exist somewhere in the clouds - waht about bootleg Xbox copies, what about newsgroups, what about megaupload sites - maybe console piracy balances PC piracy there, maybe all anti piracy rhetoric is just PR of greedy publishers... "There are no facts, you could be wrong..."

 

[The Running Man]

The PC has a lot more unpolished exclusives than the consoles.

 

[Borsch]

This is debatable. A number of Indies have come out and clearly said that they don't care about Piracy. There are many reasons why Niche games can fail, and this still happens on the Console market today - lack of marketing or market-preparation, poor timing etc.

Oh yeah, sure. Spend millons on creating a game who cares that you will only return a couple of hundred thousands... This approach does work

Rise of Flight devs said it many times, that their (much criticised initially) DRM was the ONLY way for them to survive (sure, they are biased and probably just spread lies with their PR).
Truth is- game development costs money, consoles make returns, but investing in PC is waaaay to risky. Unless we are talking about multiplayer focused games - where developers invest into PC and make them work - WoW, Starcraft, WoT, iRacing, etc.

 

[LokiS]

...

I never meant you in particular (even though I written it as such) but more of what the discussion in the thread went into. I went off on one on the pc dying theme , I'll stay away

 

[iv-tecman]

I never meant you in particular (even though I written it as such) but more of what the discussion in the thread went into. I went off on one on the pc dying theme , I'll stay away

That’s ok, the whole discussion seems to have somehow derailed into a classic debate about how piracy is the reasons for the woes of PC gamers, PC gaming isn’t what it used to be debates and all the other crud that somehow crops up despite me trying to start a nice positive discussion about a few titles released recently. A few titles that I feel has shown just how strong PC gaming is considering all the negativity and poor attention (unduly) PC gaming generally gets from most publishers.

All I know is that considering back in 1996 I’d have to upgrade to the tune of £400+ to get the latest games to run at even half decent performance to today 2012 where I can use a two + year old gaming laptop and still expect nearly most new releases to run at fantastic settings and look fabulous at great performance and have a good selection of games to keep me entertained is great I feel..

To be fair, I think the hardware requirements for PC games had to slow down, not everyone can afford to fork out for £300+ GPU’s.

As for digital distribution, great concept, which is now a way I obtain many new titles. It’s fabulous to be able to say pre order Mass Effect 3, and on day of release download and play. Just wish the prices of digital downloads were a little more competitive, but this is a whole other discussion.

 

[Random Guy]

Apologies OP, I didn't realise how far this thread would derail - got to say though, Borsch seems to be handpicking responses rather than debating anything.

So......Changing Fortunes for PC Gaming - well I think you are right! It has been good to see positive press about PC Gaming for a change, regardless of the cynics out there.

 

[Tombo]

Oh look, it's THAT argument again (piracy).

The long and short of it is piracy isn't a significant problem, it's not what makes or breaks a games success. Usually the most pirated games are also the most financially successful.

Spoiler

inb4 AWPC

 

[no_1_dave]

I used to pirate all my games but over the last couple of years I have stopped. Mainly thanks to Steam. I just want things easy. It used to be that pirating was the easiest way, you'd download the game, copy the exe & play. But when patch's come out you need to wait for a new crack, sometimes you needed the original exe before updating the game, sometimes not all the DRM was fully cracked so you'd need to wait for a proper.

Steam has turned this around for me. Steam is now far easier then playing pirated copies. You buy it on Steam and that's it. Once downloaded it will always stay up to date automatically, no hassle with cracks, easily play multiplayer you'd otherwise miss out on. I don't need a 1TB drive full of ISO's which then I need to check out what patch's and cracks are available before I install.

Basically what I am saying from my own personal experience is that piracy is down to the publishers and distribution. People need to be able to pay for & play games on demand. It needs to be easy, well thought out & work. The games also need to be priced appropriately. Using Steam is cutting out the middle man so pass some of the savings on to the consumers. Alan Wake for example is just over £20. That's perfect, there is no need to pirate a game that is £20 on release!! Price the same game at £40 and it'll be pirated to the point that you'd make less profit then if it was priced at £20 to begin with. The sales on Steam are also brilliant. I think I now have purchased almost every game I ever pirated, not to mention I now actually play them. When you pirate a game there is no urge to play it all the way through, getting your monies worth is often a good motivator to play past that dull part, or actually give the game a chance even if it has a dodgy camera angle etc.

The billion dollar question is how DID Rise of Flight pull it off - 2009 release, has single player, 200.000 users and no cracked versions ever appeared anywhere, ever?!

They probably did nothing to pull it off. Over time quite a few games have been missed.

 

[Borsch]

They probably did nothing to pull it off. Over time quite a few games have been missed.

Even FSX addons are all hacked as are addons to Silent Hunter... No, RoF wasn't "ignored", its DRM worked! And RoF team has survived and is currently taking preorders on expansion to the original game.

And overall pirating on PC is still as easy as it ever was - dl a game at often faster speeds than Steam, copy/paste some files into game folder. Why spend even £20?(sarcasm).

I would hate for EU to ban/filter internet sites, I love the free internet, but what games need is good DRM that publishers can trust enough to start investing into PC as their primary platform. Then we'll get some alternatives to console arcades.

 

[Amnesia]

but what games need is good DRM that publishers can trust enough to start investing into PC as their primary platform. Then we'll get some alternatives to console arcades.

Can you prove that more secure drm = more sales ?

before you attempt it i'l remind you of some stats you posted earlier and lets be fair and compare a gaming console to a gaming console.

54% of sales for xbox and heavily pirated
40% of sales for ps3 with pretty much zero piracy if any

the console with zero piracy has less sales.