Cheating - What is and what isn't acceptable?

BaZ87 · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:20

Following on from the spoiler thread and the discussion about diving and cheating, it's clear people have different interpretationas of what is cheating and what's ok.

Is it cheating if a player exaggerates contact to ensure he wins the foul, knowing that if he stays on his feet that he's unlikely to get the foul?

Is it cheating when a striker sees a defender trying to win the ball and puts his body in between the defender and the ball to draw a foul or is it clever play?

When a defender knowingly trips an attacker, is it cheating when he then gestures to the ref that the attacker dived?

Or even something as simple as appealing for a throw-in/corner when you know you knocked the ball out of play?

joem1983 · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:25

I always hate seeing players pleading with the ref for harsher penalties. I dont know if its cheating but a lot is unfair. But when there so much money involved...

They need a sin bin for such behavior, so the ref doesnt feel pressured into spoiling a match.

cheets64 · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:27

They way I see it

If a player cheats for you team = it happens
If a opposition player cheats against your team = OMFG THIS IS AN OUTRAGE HE IS A DISGRACE TO FOOTBALL

BaZ87 · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:33

cheets64 said:
They way I see it

If a player cheats for you team = it happens
If a opposition player cheats against your team = OMFG THIS IS AN OUTRAGE HE IS A DISGRACE TO FOOTBALL

Everybody has a natural bias towards their team and certain player will always be made out to be worse than they are because of their profile but this is a general question on what is fair and what is cheating.

For instance, a player appealing for a throw-in when he knows he played the ball out of play is an attempt to con the ref, yet we have no problem with this. But if a player jumps 10 foot in the air after the slightest contact, he's labelled as a cheat.

jakeke · 6 Dec 2011 at 15:50

The way I see it, if there's kissing it's cheating, if you don't kiss it's fine.

Adrianr · 6 Dec 2011 at 16:08

Suarez isn't acceptable

BaZ87 · 6 Dec 2011 at 16:14

I should have known it was too much to ask to get a sensible debate out of some of you.

You're all bandwagon jumping, armchair fans that have never been to a game in your life

Adrianr · 6 Dec 2011 at 16:15

BaZ87 said:
I should have known it was too much to ask to get a sensible debate out of some of you.

You're all bandwagon jumping, armchair fans that have never been to a game in your life

Sorry, I shall write a proper reply shortly when I've got a few minutes.

Tummy · 6 Dec 2011 at 16:23

I think there is a fine line between cheating and just using dirty underhand tactics in football.

cheets64 · 6 Dec 2011 at 16:55

What about Blackburn at Wigan, that corner was blatant cheating, he knew he never touched it but carried on and celebrated the goal. What about going up to the ref and saying I never touched it, sub human scum.

Skip to 2:15, why cant all footballers have a bit of class.

fez · 6 Dec 2011 at 17:03

Managers wouldn't like it if all their players started being 'sporting'. Its either all or nothing at that level. Everyone has to follow the same philosophy otherwise you would soon give up after a team took advantage of your good nature or didn't reciprocate.

Suarez is a dirty little **** though. I have no sympathy for him at all and I am starting to dislike Dalglish as a result.

I play hockey every weekend and although its not really that competitive, 95% of the people I play against / with don't have a sporting bone in their body. I have owned up to more dodgy decisions myself than I have seen from all the other teams combined.

Its just not really taught to kids as something that is vital to the game. From a young age you are taught to cheat and be dirty to win. Thats why I stopped playing football in my mid teens. The average player was a talentless oaf trying to kick the **** out of you and then claimed that they just played a 'hard' game.

Adrianr · 6 Dec 2011 at 17:39

fez said:
Managers wouldn't like it if all their players started being 'sporting'. Its either all or nothing at that level. Everyone has to follow the same philosophy otherwise you would soon give up after a team took advantage of your good nature or didn't reciprocate.

Further to this, do people feel this is more a phenomena born out of the immense amount of money in the game, and thus importance of every game outcome riding on pivotal challenges or decisions?

I wonder if you could go through last season and dissect results that were achieved as a direct result of cheating/a very bad decision, and the financial impact that had on the two clubs? I know it's not even remotely that cut and dry, but it would be interesting to see if a club missed out on say, 4th place by a single point, or even relegation, if there was even a single point gained as a direct result of cheating throughout the season either at their expense or in their favor (I know United fans reference the two Chelsea games when Chelsea won the title, but I can't quite remember what it was all about). I'm sure as a player if you knew cheating to win a penalty would keep your club from relegation, or get you into the Champions League, you'd do it. I wonder if there is also an increase in this sort of behavior toward the end of the season when the crunch is approaching?

fez · 6 Dec 2011 at 17:59

Adrianr said:
Further to this, do people feel this is more a phenomena born out of the immense amount of money in the game, and thus importance of every game outcome riding on pivotal challenges or decisions?

I wonder if you could go through last season and dissect results that were achieved as a direct result of cheating/a very bad decision, and the financial impact that had on the two clubs? I know it's not even remotely that cut and dry, but it would be interesting to see if a club missed out on say, 4th place by a single point, or even relegation, if there was even a single point gained as a direct result of cheating throughout the season either at their expense or in their favor (I know United fans reference the two Chelsea games when Chelsea won the title, but I can't quite remember what it was all about). I'm sure as a player if you knew cheating to win a penalty would keep your club from relegation, or get you into the Champions League, you'd do it. I wonder if there is also an increase in this sort of behavior toward the end of the season when the crunch is approaching?

I would love to believe that it was just the money but I have seen the cheating that goes on at every level of football. I don't like to say it but cheating is pretty much acceptable in sport. The only sports that have removed cheating are those where there is no ambiguity as to whether someone has cheated. Thats why diving is so hard to judge.

I play against plenty of clubs that have dodgy referees that are horrendously biased and allow their own players to get away with murder and it completely ruins the game.

Its hard to fix as you are simply not able to talk to the referees. They hold all the power and can say / do what they please with the knowledge that they can send you off if you say anything to them.

Shamikebab · 6 Dec 2011 at 18:07

My attitude to cheating used to be completely black and white, but now I've seen so many stupid refs not give a penalty just because a player has tried to stay on his feet that I have no problem with going down under contact easily now.

Vespasian777 · 6 Dec 2011 at 18:38

All this was just coming into the game when I was a kid. It's one of the reasons I have very little interest in football these days. Zero integrity, at all levels of the game. The FA don't want to introduce cameras to help the refs. Why? So everyone can get animated about all the bad decisions the referees make, as well as the football. It's theatre. A bit like wrestling. It could all be sorted out in a couple of weeks if anyone at the top of football had a will to do it.

Dabbles · 6 Dec 2011 at 22:47

cheets64 said:
Skip to 2:15, why cant all footballers have a bit of class.

If he had that much class he would have chipped it into Seaman's grateful hands.

HangTime · 6 Dec 2011 at 22:53

BaZ87 said:
Following on from the spoiler thread and the discussion about diving and cheating, it's clear people have different interpretationas of what is cheating and what's ok.

Is it cheating if a player exaggerates contact to ensure he wins the foul, knowing that if he stays on his feet that he's unlikely to get the foul?
TOUGH ONE. UNDECIDED.

Is it cheating when a striker sees a defender trying to win the ball and puts his body in between the defender and the ball to draw a foul or is it clever play?
NOT CHEAT, ALTHOUGH REFS COULD PENALISE THEM FOR OBSTRUCTION DEPENDING ON THE CIRCUMSTANCES

When a defender knowingly trips an attacker, is it cheating when he then gestures to the ref that the attacker dived?
CHEAT

Or even something as simple as appealing for a throw-in/corner when you know you knocked the ball out of play?

CHEAT

The last one is the thing that annoys me, not the fact that people do it so much, but the fact that everyone considers waving an imaginary card (suggesting the referee takes a particular course of action that may be justified) as tantamount to treason, yet appealing for a corner when it should be a goalkick (suggesting the referee takes a particular course of action that is NOT justified) is just seen as part of the game.

PiKe · 6 Dec 2011 at 23:00

Completely expected this to be in general discussion.

drunkenmaster · 7 Dec 2011 at 08:01

A foul, is a foul, is a foul. If someone is fouled, stays on his feet, then does a dance of joy, or if he is fouled and makes a meal of going down...... in both situations, he's fouled.

If someone is barely touched, and throws himself to the ground like a big ***** then gets up screaming at the ref......... his name is Suarez

its also NOT a foul so going down is cheating, its not difficult.

Gilly · 7 Dec 2011 at 08:07

I play Saturday league footy as a defender. This weekend an attacker I'd pushed out wide played the ball off me for a corner. I turned and walked back towards our goal to defend the corner, but the ref had given a goal kick and run back to the halfway line. I didn't contest the decision, should I have? Am I a cheat?

I didn't claim the goal kick, I just got one.

I think if you exaggerate contact, but it was a foul, then it's OK. I think the waving for a card to be produced thing is because it really is against the spirit of the game. It might not be as gentlemanly as cricket - but then cricket is a non-contact sport. It's much easier to remain level headed.

I don't like a fouled (or not) person rolling around in agony only to be sprinting for the ball a couple of minutes later. That kind of exaggeration is trying to get someone disciplined that may well not deserve it.