China and the Philippines - water cannon attacks

[Roar87]

The SE Asian countries are scared of China and invited the US to help them defend their independence. Much like Eastern European countries wanting to join NATO for protection against Russia. International law allows countries to determine their own security arrangements.

Based on what? China hasn't been involved in any armed conflicts for 50 years or something lol. It's more likely the US paid the relevant politicians, or gave the correct trade deals or military support in order to be invited, no?

 

[Derek W]

Thought I had best undertake some independent research into what is clearly a significant geopolitical issue. A search for Chinese squirt videos has proved quite eye opening.

 

[visibleman]

I'm not disputing what the international laws are, I just think you'll find that if countries feel their sovereignty and security is threatened, international laws will quickly go out of the window. Israel being a good example of this.

Are you suggesting that it's OK for counties that may, in their mind, feel threatened by another as reasoning for annexing land and/or claiming bordering seas/oceans?

And similarly, have you got a reliable source or sources that suggests this is the case with China, in that it feels threatened due to US military installations on ally soil hence them unofficially claiming vast areas of the South China Sea?

 

[Malevolence]

US military bases around China, you'll note these bases are so far away from the US that the Continental United States isn't even visible on the map. China is going to be consistently painted as the aggressor in the media, but why does the US need to take this approach towards China, a country that was last involved in an armed conflict in 1979?

Quelle surprise, Roar87 is on the side of the genocidal warmongers. Who would've thunk it?

 

[Stu999]

oh no people on ships are getting wet.

It does get boring out at sea. The Chinese vessels probably wanted to start a water fight.

 

[Mr Badger]

Quelle surprise, Roar87 is on the side of the genocidal warmongers. Who would've thunk it?

He may be wrong, but at least he's consistent.

 

[Diddums]

Have the upgraded to Nerf guns yet?

 

[Chojin]

China doesn’t want US getting involved in South China Sea anymore than they want them involved in the North Atlantic, basically. And so they claim it all, build artificial islands full of military hardware, runways, SAMs. As for the other countries….well.

China will be upset that the annual Balikatan drills are currently underway then, and even the French are involved showing their support.

thought the china europe railway was now taking a lot of trade away from sea and puts UK to shame;
Didn't really understand their $140b gold reserves announced this week, as being indicative that taiwan attack was more likely - currency protection ?

They use the gold to build up their petroyuan system so they can buy oil from Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia. Bypass sanctions, diminish the petrodollar system. Currently US has the "exorbitant privilege" of being able to print dollars but a competing power would want to remove that in the long term.

IIRC the Chinese navy at the moment is mainly "coastal", they have little capacity for deep water operations, and their aircraft carriers for example are currently not working out very well.

If they start messing around it won't just be the US ship builders, it'll likely be the South Koreans etc who have a vested interest in making sure the waterways stay open and clear.

The US lost an F35 in the South China Sea a couple of years ago - it would have been a disaster for them if China got to it first and were able to reverse engineer it.

 

[Roar87]

Are you suggesting that it's OK for counties that may, in their mind, feel threatened by another as reasoning for annexing land and/or claiming bordering seas/oceans?

I didn't say it was okay. I'm simply saying if you do X then you will get Y as an outcome. It doesn't matter whether it's illegal or wrong, it will still happen. If a country feels threatened they may break international law if it means addressing what they consider a legitimate security concern. National security and the protection of the state generally trumps anything else.

And similarly, have you got a reliable source or sources that suggests this is the case with China, in that it feels threatened due to US military installations on ally soil hence them unofficially claiming vast areas of the South China Sea?

I don't think this is the sole reason China has built artificial islands, but I'm sure the Chinese military has run simulations of a war against the US Navy and then considered it a priority to have off-shore military bases.

Quelle surprise, Roar87 is on the side of the genocidal warmongers. Who would've thunk it?

I'm not taking a side. I'm stating X action = Y outcome. We'll learn this one day.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

thought the china europe railway was now taking a lot of trade away from sea and puts UK to shame;
Didn't really understand their $140b gold reserves announced this week, as being indicative that taiwan attack was more likely - currency protection ?

My guess is that they learnt some lessons after watching the sanctions placed on Russia. They are probably signalling that, the same strategy won't work on them.

 

[Chuk_Chuk]

Another previous water cannon from onboard the Phillipines vessel demonstrating how powerful they are against the crew:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1772218052828188897

I had heard of these water cannons, but I didn't realise how devastating they could be. Surely it is an armed attack at this point.

 

[Nasher]

Difference vs the US bases around there is what China think they can claim is international waters. It's the same rules all over the planet, you only get to own X miles out to sea. If seas/oceans are going to be claimed then the US, UK and Canada are going to own all of the North Atlantic.

 

[Bluecube]

and their aircraft carriers for example are currently not working out very well.

I didn’t know about this. Got a link or two with some more info? Thanks

 

[Stu999]

The US lost an F35 in the South China Sea a couple of years ago - it would have been a disaster for them if China got to it first and were able to reverse engineer it.

They already stole the plans via hacking.

Throwback Attack: Chinese hackers steal plans for the F-35 fighter in a supply chain heist - Industrial Cybersecurity Pulse

The similarity between China’s J-31 fighter and the U.S.’s F-35 is more than coincidental. China stole plans for the F-35 in a data breach.

www.industrialcybersecuritypulse.com

Main advantage they probably would have gotten (if they didn’t already have it) would have been the materials that make up the skin of the plane.

 

[Chojin]

I had heard of these water cannons, but I didn't realise how devastating they could be. Surely it is an armed attack at this point.

I would have thought so yes - there have already been some injuries and the power of the cannons has the ability to kill.

Since land grabs are back in fashion it makes me wonder how much appetite there is for defending a shoal against China's might. It seems like the focus is on upgrading Philippine hardware - they are budgeting a $60 billion upgrade. Until then it's just the usual show of force that the US does sailing their fleet through the sea as a deterrent.

They already stole the plans via hacking.

Throwback Attack: Chinese hackers steal plans for the F-35 fighter in a supply chain heist - Industrial Cybersecurity Pulse

The similarity between China’s J-31 fighter and the U.S.’s F-35 is more than coincidental. China stole plans for the F-35 in a data breach.

www.industrialcybersecuritypulse.com

Main advantage they probably would have gotten (if they didn’t already have it) would have been the materials that make up the skin of the plane.

It's shocking but also not surprising that they got their hands on the plans. One of the reasons Iran is such a big player in drone technology is following the Iran–U.S. RQ-170 incident where they captured a US drone.

It's a pity that these incidents have allowed adversaries to close the gap.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

It's pretty common knowledge that China claim a lot of the South China Sea but I hadn't realised how much things were heating up in that area. China actively being the bully in that area, probably thanks to all the other events in Eastern Europe and M.E. taking the attention away from them. It's not been getting much coverage in the West but Washington Post seem to be on top of it.

Its nothing new its been going on for at least several years now the only difference here is Philippines are daring to stand up to chinese ships illegally occupying the islands due to some lukewarm backing from the US - normally they wouldn't dare China is extremely aggressive in these encounters it really needs the US or someone to directly sail into these waters but western countries are extremely reluctant to get into a direct confrontation with China over it. Like much else including Ukraine etc powerful dictators are pretty much left to do whatever they want with minimal interference. China and Australia regularly exchange insults china really doesn't like australia venturing beyond (limited) territorial waters theres a reason for the AUKUS treaty signed a year or two ago even so unless theres a direct attack by china on any members territories its unlikely to escalate further as our govts really really don't want to get into a conflict with China