Christianity and Creationism - some clarification

[dirtychinchilla]

You seem to be a religious atheist? There is no proof that God does not exist so what you hold is a belief. It is no more possible to prove than beliefs held by Muslims, Christians, Jews or anyone else.

Sorry, I think we've got our wires crossed.

I think that science and religion are mutually exclusive whenever anyone expresses a point of view along the lines of god created this earth or anything on it. The fact is that religion existed (though has undoubtedly evolved since) because people couldn't explain happenings such as lightening of fire with their incredibly limited science and consequently assigned something arbitrary and unnatural, god, to the action. So, where does that leave religion?

I think that I fairly obviously do not believe in any sort of religion. I call myself an athiest but I don't think that it's fair to compare athiesm to religion. There is no religion in my life, humans are not born with religion, and therefore there is no need for me to prove a belief because I do not have one...I hope that makes sense! I also don't believe in anything spritual or supernatural.

However, as a scientist, if the existence of god could be proved without doubt, I would then accept it.

 

[bhavv]

The term 'religious atheist' is pure ignorance at its finest

Not believing in something until it is proven or at the least has valid supporting evidence =/= religion.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

The term 'religious atheist' is pure ignorance at its finest

Not believing in something =/= religion.

If you're saying what I think you're saying...that's a much more simple explanation that what I said.

 

[dirtychinchilla]

^^ UK Christian school, government endorsed, 100% LEGAL.

Bloody hell! I'd nuke that place.

 

[Castiel]

Wrong again. These are private faith schools that do not have to follow the National Curriculum. Free schools can teach Creationism as Science, and quite a significant number of Christian Faith Schools are doing so.

Creationism was only banned from being taught in state schools in the UK, it is not banned from being taught in private schools.

Absolute nonsence. Michael Gove himself expressed the exact opposite from what you state. Creationism is not to be taught as Science in any school, be it a Free School or State School.

Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams stated that Creationism should NOT be taught in schools, National Curriculum rules state that Creationism is not to be taught in Science or RE as if it was science.

The National Curriculum requires that Evolution is taught as Science in publicly funded UK schools, this includes all Free Schools, Faith Schools and Independent Schools that receive any form of public funding regardless of whether they are free from the National Curriculum or not.

You are right to say it is not banned outright, but that doesn't imply that faith schools are teaching Creationism as Science or replacing Evolution with Intelligent Design, considering both the main supporters of faith Schools in the UK, The Church of England and The Catholic Church are opposed to teaching creationism either in Science or otherwise it is extremely disingenuous to suggest they are doing so anyway.

Wherever a school is found to be teaching creationism in such a way that it can be construed as a valid opposing view to Evolution then that School should (and generally is) censured and if necessary closed or the offending teacher dismissed.

 

[bhavv]

blah blah blah blah blah typical Castiel blah blah blah blah blah

REGARDLESS of peoples PERSONAL VIEWS, the teaching of Creationism in free schools in the UK (And in some cases as a complete replacement of Science classes) is NOT YET ILLEGAL!

Also, I dismiss every video that has been posted so far in this thread, and raise you this:

^^ UK Christian school, government endorsed, 100% LEGAL.

The latest news reports on this topic I can find dated from the last few months only state peoples opinions and concerns about banning this kind of teaching, nothing has yet been done legally to stop it from happening.

 

[Castiel]

To quote university educated Christians that I have spoken to -

'Evolution is only a theory and I dont believe it, but you can if you want to, that is fine'.

IMO this is the Christian view of 'happy coexistance with Science'.

It does not imply that Christians do not reject Evolution in favour of Creationism as a personal belief.

These were also people who were studying to become teachers.



Yes out of me and you, you are the only one I see judging other people on this forum, and constantly putting words into their mouths that they did not say, purely because you have a complete lack of comprehension skills.

Neither of the two mainstream Christian religions who fund faith schools in the UK support Creationism, either doctrinally or in education.

And you seem to confuse facts and objective observation with being judgemental . It is not my comprehension that is lacking here, it is your ability to be objective or even honest.

 

[Dolph]

The term 'religious atheist' is pure ignorance at its finest

Not believing in something until it is proven or at the least has valid supporting evidence =/= religion.

Believing that it's testable via the scientific method requires faith, because no-one who actually understands the method should hold that belief

 

[Castiel]

REGARDLESS of peoples PERSONAL VIEWS, the teaching of Creationism in free schools in the UK (And in some cases as a complete replacement of Science classes) is NOT YET ILLEGAL!

And it doesn't have to be, as schools who recieve public funding are required to follow the guidelines set put by the Government as a condition of that funding. This includes Free Schools.


It simply is not true that creationism is the accepted belief of the mainstream of Christianity in the UK.

*

SCIENTIFIC AND THEOLOGICAL NONSENSE

. . . Mr Holloway seems to equate intelligent design and young-earth creationism (YEC). Intelligent design, as propounded by Dembski, Meyer and others, does have considerable merits, whereas creationism has none. I have looked at the Emmanuel College and Christian Institute websites, and found that YEC is being supported by the present and former principals and Mr. Layfield, a science teacher.

The latter recommends that students should study how most of the strata from the Cambrian was laid down in the year of Noah's Flood; how ‘Noah could fit all the animals on the ark; and whether lunar craters (caused by asteroids some four billion years ago) and the fangs and claws of predators were caused by Adam's fall. If that is not rubbish, then what is?

This is typical YEC, emanating from the Institute of Creation Research, founded by Henry Morris and Answers in Genesis, both of which organisations have multi-million-dollar war-chests. They have already caused havoc in American churches and education.

I experienced some of' these problems while teaching geology for Wheaton College (a leading Evangelical liberal-arts college) last summer, when half of my students were convinced that the earth was only a few thousand years old. They, had been taught this by their churches or through home schooling.

This caused a crisis of faith for some students, and several said openly that they had been indoctrinated. Science lecturers throughout the USA have endless problems with students taught the type of "science" taught at Emmanuel College.

Creationism with its young-earth geology is simply scientific and theological nonsense. It runs counter to both the Bible and the whole weight of Christian' tradition, from Augustine through Calvin, to William Temple and John Polkinghorne.

MICHAEL ROBERTS

Letter in Church Times, 12/4/02

Also Michael Roberts wrote this paper:

http://scibel.com/scibel/paper_genesis_and_geology_unearthed_history.html



The teaching of Creationism in UK schools is extremely rare, and when bought to light the offeding teachers are invariably removed from their positions.

You are, as usual, attempting to ascribe a minority opinion onto the majority to assauge your biased beliefs and justify your anti-relogion agenda.

 

[Naffa]

Well, I read a letter from the office of Michael Gove only a few weeks ago, where he clearly stated that the teaching of creationism in a science classroom is not something that will be allowed in a 'publicly funded school'.

 

[Dolph]

REGARDLESS of peoples PERSONAL VIEWS, the teaching of Creationism in free schools in the UK (And in some cases as a complete replacement of Science classes) is NOT YET ILLEGAL!



The latest news reports on this topic I can find dated from the last few months only state peoples opinions and concerns about banning this kind of teaching, nothing has yet been done legally to stop it from happening.

Are you confusing the teaching of creationism in religious education classes with the teaching of it as a science?

 

[bhavv]

And it doesn't have to be, as schools who recieve public funding are required to follow the guidelines set put by the Government as a condition of that funding. This includes Free Schools.

Are you confusing the teaching of creationism in religious education classes with the teaching of it as a science?

Feel free to explain what you saw in the video I posted rather than pretending that this doesnt actually happen?

 

[Xordium]

Creationism and science. Both most likely wrong.

 

[Scrutinize]

What are your views on Jesus?

I don't think that is really relevant.

Well, if you are claiming to be a Christian and portraying the views of Christians, especially when saying the majority don't believe in creationsim, it is hugely relevant.

After all, professing to be a Christian is; to be a follower of Christ and the absolute belief that he is the Son of God, died and was resurrected and belief in him is the only absolution for sin.

The reality is, a lot of denominations are ignoring this, and simply trying to recruit people to the church, and possibly a belief in the Abrahamic God, by softening the core beliefs and eroding the faith to something they think might be palatable to the masses.

Your opening doctrine on the creationism argument does just that.

 

[bhavv]

Creationism and science. Both most likely wrong.

But science has done far far many better things for humanity than creationism / religion ever have.

If everysingle person in the world united for a synchronized prayer for whatever reason, this would be far less beneficial than a single dose of antibiotics for a person with a bacterial infection.

 

[bhavv]

Well, if you are claiming to be a Christian and portraying the views of Christians, especially when saying the majority don't believe in creationsim, it is hugely relevant.

After all, professing to be a Christian is; to be a follower of Christ and the absolute belief that he is the Son of God, died and was resurrected and belief in him is the only absolution for sin.

The reality is, a lot of denominations are ignoring this, and simply trying to recruit people to the church, and possibly a belief in the Abrahamic God, by softening the core beliefs and eroding the faith to something they think might be palatable to the masses.

Your opening doctrine on the creationism argument does just that.

All Christians believe in some form of Creationism - Im sure that to be a Christian you have to believe that everything was created by God right?

How is that not a creationist belief

 

[Castiel]

Well, I read a letter from the office of Michael Gove only a few weeks ago, where he clearly stated that the teaching of creationism in a science classroom is not something that will be allowed in a 'publicly funded school'.

Precisely.

 

[Xordium]

But science has done far far many better things for humanity than creationism / religion ever have..

Scientifically prove that. If you can not then we'll have to take what you say on faith I guess.

 

[bhavv]

The teaching of Creationism in UK schools is extremely rare, and when bought to light the offeding teachers are invariably removed from their positions.

In 2010 there were 45 schools teaching the Creationist cirriculum, all govenment endorsed independant schools.

The teachers werent causing any cause of 'legal offense', they wouldnt have been removed from their positions because what they were doing is fully legal and allowed in this country.

 

[bhavv]

Scientifically prove that. If you can not then we'll have to take what you say on faith I guess.

Its beyond simple to prove this.

- Two groups of sick people.
- Group A treated with medicine
- Group B treated with prayer.

Which group heals, and which one doesnt?