Here here.
Christianity and Creationism - some clarification
- Thread starter spudbynight
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Here here.
Indeed, I think we are getting no further to be honest. In closing I would say that you feel that your faith has very valid reasons to discriminate between men and women and to discriminate against homosexuality. Whilst I feel the arguements about what is dogma, tradition and Tradition are somewhat semantic I can see why you would feel that the discriminations of the Church are valid, even if I do not agree with them. I would however say that the fact that the Church holds these views makes it an organisation that discriminates regardless of the justification for it.
Women cannot become priests, bishops, cardinals or popes, therefore they are excluded from the higher echelons of the Church. This is a fact. From an objective point of view this would be discrimination.
The church lobbies against homosexual marriage, homosexual adoption and considers homosexuality a disorder and something sinful/shameful/wrong. It's actions against homosexuals and lobbying activity support this. Again, from an objective point of view, this would be discrimination.
It seems somewhat odd then that your previous list of dogma would mention Adam and Eve if the story is allegorical. Why is it dogma we are descended from Adam and Eve (from the list you previously supplied) if the story is not a literal one?
I was specifically speaking about these boards. Religion has been afforded a greater level of protection than sexuality or political beliefs. I would also disagree with you as far as the wider world goes. I would suggest what is actually happening is that some of the protections that religion once enjoyed are being (rightfully) stripped away. However it still has protected status as far as discrimination laws go. no one stops you holding whatever religious beliefs you wish, what may be curtailed is how much you are allowed to let them impact others. If I cannot run a business that would discriminate against your religion why should you be able to run a business that could discriminate against my sexuality?
I would expect nothing less than rational disagreement from you.
I can occassionally do rational agreement too, though less often!
The problem is that different people will have different views as to what respectful means. For example telling someone that they suffer from a disorder could be considered disrespectful.
You would disagree with me on quite a few levels because my views on abortion are tied in quite firmly to views on contraception and the right of a woman to control her own body. With proper education and access to contraception and decent sex education there would be no need for as many abortions as are currently carried out. However I would quite frimly resist any move to restrict access to abortion because I believe that the woman's right to control her own body trumps the rights of the unborn child and the rights of the religious to enforce their views on others.
I had heard of the Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, although I was not aware it had met all five criteria for Papal Infallibility.
Just having the Pope say something, even ex cathedra doesn't make it infallible or irrevocable.
However, I did a little research this afternoon and found that it has indeed met all five criterion, the final being acceptance by the Magisterium and Responsum ad Dubium in 1995 conveyed that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis belongs to the Deposit of the Faith and has met the First Charism of the Sacred Magisterium.
Not that I agree with their finding or some of the scriptural basis for it, but then neither am I a Catholic or required to follow it.
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My speciality linguistically is Koine Greek, and Classical Hebrew, but by implication I have a reasonable (academic lingustic) knowledge of Classical and Old Latin.....why?
Just heard a phrase wondered if it was Latin (it certainly sounds like it) and if so what they hell it meant.
Do you have it written down? If so email it to me, or the approximation if you don't have the exact phaseology and I'll have a look.
Cheers - sent a mail to your trust.
No problem, I let you know when I've looked at it....
I need a bit more info....one of the words is straight forward, although one of the others has an obvious meaning, it is difficult to reconsile without some context...I've emailed you anyway...
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