Cider - proper scrumpy farmhouse styles

Tuppy_Glossop said:
It's a shame that the producers of that kind of cider are the least likely to do online sales. A friend and I have been making and selling cider since 2008. In 2010 we bought three acres and planted 350 apple trees (three quarters are trad cider varieties). We make around 2000L a year in the time we have available but have enough apples for two to three times that. We have made rum cask and whisky cask, but usually use ex-Bordeaux red wine casks. Our ciders are different every year because we don't follow a recipe and we allow naturally-occuring yeasts to do the alcohol fermentation. We also let them brew all the way so they are strong (around 7% usually) but dry. Bone dry. One review on Untappd suggested 'think Atacama desert'. The colour is down to the varieties you use and the cask. The first time you use a Bordeaux barrel (they only use them for three years) the cider comes out pink. Varieties like Yarlington Mill naturally give a darker colour.

Anyway, during the early years we spent a lot of time in the West Country learning our craft by meeting the makers and sampling lots. Here are my recommendations for non-commercial cider and perry makers:

Kevin Minchew http://www.minchews.co.uk/ in Gloucestershire. Kev is hooning mad in a nice way.
Derek Hartland https://www.facebook.com/ciderandperry/ - Also Gloucestershire and like stepping back in time. He sells Mills and Boon books and cassette music tapes, and he wears a Queen's Silver Jubilee pinny. Also a bit bonkers.
Mike Johnson https://rosscider.com/ - Mike was so helpful and makes great cider and perry. He has won awards for helping starters in the cider business. Fantastic guy.
Roger Wilkins https://twitter.com/wilkinscider?lang=en - Mudgley, Somerset and what a character! There are always red-faced old men drinking here, even at 10 in the morning. Try his cheddar and his blue cheese.
Andrew Heck https://www.heckscider.com/farm-shop/ in Street near Glastonbury.
Gwatkin Cider https://gwatkincider.co.uk/ - like stepping back 100 years and getting cider made by ZZ Top. They are incredible cider makers, I don't think they have one in their range that I don't like. My fave is the Somerset Redstreak when they have it. Try their Cheddar. Monumentally aged with salt crystals in the middle OMNOMNOM. We once asked for a VAT number when buying some cider and he thought about it for two minutes, then said, "Ain't got none... don't want none" in the darkest West Country accent ever. Avoid the Geese.
Westcroft https://www.westcroftcider.co.uk/ more Somerset loveliness made by an interesting character. Janet's Jungle Juice has won Best UK Cider three times.

This list isn't exhaustive by any means. There are many more great cider makers, and all over the country. We are in the Northern Cider Makers group which has forty members. Always be sure to check they use wild yeast, don't add anything, and use trad methods.
Click to expand...

Cheers, that's a great list - I'll have to try Gwatkin and Wilkins. Do you sell any of your own stuff online?
 
We are not set up for the normal kind of online sales. We do 20L bag in box which primarily sells to pubs directly or wholesalers. There's a guy who comes up from Chepstow and takes some away for distribution down south to pubs and festivals. We do private sales and deliver locally. There's a guy who drives forty miles to collect it. We have never used a courier. If you want to take a BiB (£60) we'll have to find a solution for delivery. I can look into it, if you like.
 
Tuppy_Glossop said:
It's a shame that the producers of that kind of cider are the least likely to do online sales. A friend and I have been making and selling cider since 2008. In 2010 we bought three acres and planted 350 apple trees (three quarters are trad cider varieties). We make around 2000L a year in the time we have available but have enough apples for two to three times that. We have made rum cask and whisky cask, but usually use ex-Bordeaux red wine casks. Our ciders are different every year because we don't follow a recipe and we allow naturally-occuring yeasts to do the alcohol fermentation. We also let them brew all the way so they are strong (around 7% usually) but dry. Bone dry. One review on Untappd suggested 'think Atacama desert'. The colour is down to the varieties you use and the cask. The first time you use a Bordeaux barrel (they only use them for three years) the cider comes out pink. Varieties like Yarlington Mill naturally give a darker colour.

<snip>
Click to expand...

Perhaps you can clear up my confusion over the description in the OP...

caff said:
I'm talking strong 7%-8% farmhouse still cider with a vinegary tang, and ideally a rich dark colour.
Click to expand...

I've never made cider, but I have made wine and beer. I have to assume that the alcohol fermentation of cider is done in a closed vessel with an air-lock specifically to prevent the introduction of acetobacter (and other things). No? But if your goal is cider vinegar then you'd ferment in an open vessel covered with something like cheesecloth. After primary fermentation the acetobacter would convert the alcohol to acetic acid during the secondary fermentation resulting in vinegar.

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that once acetobacter has been introduced to your primary fermentation you're doomed. The end result will be vinegar as there's no way to stop the secondary fermentation.

If so, how do you get a cider with a 'vinegary tang'?
 
BlueMerle said:
If so, how do you get a cider with a 'vinegary tang'?
Click to expand...

I suspect it is simply a poor choice of word. As you say, no cider should have a vinegary tang. First you get the alcohol fermentation where saccharomyces turns reducible sugars into alcohol and releases energy that the yeast uses to grow. Then, given the right temperature and bacteria (lactobacillus) there can be a malolactic fermentation (malic acid converted to lactic acid) giving a richer mouthfeel and slightly less acidity. Then, once the cider is exposed to air, acetobacter starts converting ethanol to vinegar.

I suspect that OP meant not over-sweetened or, more specifically, sharp. Good ciders have a balance of sweetness (non-fermentable sugars or stopping alcohol fermentation early and removing the yeast), sharpness (acids in the fruit like malic, citric, lactic), and bitterness (from tannins and other polyphenols in the apple and the barrel).
 
Tuppy_Glossop said:
I suspect it is simply a poor choice of word. As you say, no cider should have a vinegary tang. First you get the alcohol fermentation where saccharomyces turns reducible sugars into alcohol and releases energy that the yeast uses to grow. Then, given the right temperature and bacteria (lactobacillus) there can be a malolactic fermentation (malic acid converted to lactic acid) giving a richer mouthfeel and slightly less acidity. Then, once the cider is exposed to air, acetobacter starts converting ethanol to vinegar.

I suspect that OP meant not over-sweetened or, more specifically, sharp. Good ciders have a balance of sweetness (non-fermentable sugars or stopping alcohol fermentation early and removing the yeast), sharpness (acids in the fruit like malic, citric, lactic), and bitterness (from tannins and other polyphenols in the apple and the barrel).
Click to expand...

Ahhh... thanks. That makes sense and I wondered if it was a poor choice of words but couldn't be sure.
 
Just been to the local and got a 4 pint jug of Lilley's Cheeky Pig.

Not sure how I feel about it yet, it's fairly dry, which I like. Been a stupid busy week and the 7.5% is taking the edge off though :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom