Civic Type R - graph and your views please..

Noto

Noto

Noto

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Hi All,

Looking to purchase a lil car soonish and my eyes are currently set on Civic Type R.

Not super expensive yet has some fun to be had ;) I found a graph: Seems to be current Civic Type R as the BHP tops out just above 200.

URL of graph here

What does it mean when the Torque line crosses the Power line? is this the point where the car "goes" as i heard the CTR doesnt really race till 5500rpm which would mean where roughly the 2 lines cross...

PS. im fairly new to looking at performance in cars :D and any recommendations other than a civic type R is also appreciated.

Thanks in advance!

Noto
 
IIRC In a bhp ft/lb graph torque and bhp always cross at 5252 rpm

In addition to that you see greatest acceleration at the highest torque
 
Not sure if that's necessarily true of the V-Tec engines though because of their complete lack of torque. You could look at an Integra Type-R along the same lines, or there's plenty of other coupes out there too. Do you fancy a turbocharged car? A nice big fat wodge of torque so you don't have to thrash the nuts off it all the time!
 
Having never driven one I cant give a real experience BUT, it will have no less torque than a normal 2 litre 4 cylinder engine, however because it revs to a higher limit it can be geared such that it will accelerate quicker. Looking at the 0-60 time etc it certainly isnt a slouch.

The same reasoning can be applied to diesels (turbo) which have higher torque but longer gears because they dont rev as high.
 
When I drove the Type R I found it was gutless and annoying below 6000rpm, then you hit 6000rpm and it absolutely flies.

This annoyed me.
 
[TW]Fox said:
When I drove the Type R I found it was gutless and annoying below 6000rpm, then you hit 6000rpm and it absolutely flies.

This annoyed me.
Click to expand...


When I drove the Type R I found it wasn't actually that bad below 6000rpm, then you hit 6000rpm and it absolutely flies.

The need to really push it in every gear all of the time to make good progress would certainly annoy me over time. It did sound great though. :)
 
[TW]Fox said:
When I drove the Type R I found it was gutless and annoying below 6000rpm, then you hit 6000rpm and it absolutely flies.

This annoyed me.
Click to expand...

This is a fallacy IMO. Having driven one a few times and seen many dyno plots of the CTR, from the plots, the torque curve shows its pretty flat all the way to redline accept for a little torque increase on VTEC. As the car accelerates in line with the torque curve, the acceleration is pretty much linear then it will be accelerating almost as hard below VTEC as it is in VTEC. IMO its just the noise that makes you think its going a lot more faster then you really are.

Looking at that plot in the OP, the CTR doesnt seem to hold the torque all the way to the redline but slopes off after VTEC which is odd to me, it doesnt look like its running like most CTRs Ive ever seen
 
If you want a car to really drive then the CTR is excellent. If you want a car that will waft along then get a 5 series BMW.

If you're a lazy driver then it's not for you, but if you love hacking around country lanes at 8000rpm then the CTR is one of the most rewarding cars I've driven.
 
The Vtec point on the ctr, is different to the the other Vtecs i have driven, it seems to have two stages, i think its a great car for hooning around, the whole car is aimed at driving quick, its not really possible to drive them slow.

The one thing i really love about them is the position of the gear lever, its in the dash and the most perfect position ever!

One down side imo the lack of steering feel, but i believe this was fixed on post 2004 models, that really puts me off.

I looked at getting a second hand one about two years ago, i ended up with a Mondeo ST24, i really wish i had opted for the CTR at the time as theres no substitute for hooning around a wild hot hatch!

Other cars to look at are the Clio 182, again one of the best hothatches of this decade, and depending on your budget look at he Golf GTI and Focus ST2/3.Also factor in the Leon Cupra another cracking motor, not as hardcore as the Clio or CTR tho.
 
its not that gutless. it pulled in top gear from 30mph.

Its just the build quality. Its horrendous :(

Save a bundle of cash and buy an ITR. It will be better in every way.
 
[TW]Fox said:
When I drove the Type R I found it was gutless and annoying below 6000rpm, then you hit 6000rpm and it absolutely flies.

This annoyed me.
Click to expand...

I found this.

James_N said:
Its just the build quality. Its horrendous
Click to expand...

And also that. One of my good mates has one. His 53 one had more rattles and creaks coming from the interior (mainly the dash) than my 2000 little French number.

Can be oodles of fun but also tiresome. eidolon summed it up nicely I think. :)

How much were you looking to spend? As the price of them varies quite a bit.
 
My mate let me drive his 2005 CTR for a day. It certainly wasn't slow and "torqueless" below 6000RPM.


Once you hit 6000RPM and computer says "new cam shaft please"... it becomes a different car and has enough go to put you firmly in your seat.


As James (who I'm 99% sure owned one) says, the interior is truely shocking and built for one thing only... the track. It felt like I was sitting in a giant card board box with two lovely recaro seats, a nice momo steering wheel and a couple of knobs.


Focus ST/Leon Cupra R are *much* better alternatives... although I understand the CTR can be picked up for cheap as chips now.


But as been said, they're NOT turbocharged... it's just a nomal 2 Litre NA engine with what is essentially multiple camshafts. It's power is fully unleased after 6kRPM. If you want that kind of torque all over the rev range then buy something with FI. :)
 
These threads never fail to amuse :)

If you want to sit in a seat, put your foot down and for your car to crap torque, then you shouldn't even be looking at a VTEC engine.

If, you aren't lazy and like to actually drive your cars, with plenty of involvement, and a load of rev's then test drive some sort of VTEC car and see how you go.

Power delivery. People harp on all day about how its gutless, no torque etc. Having to change down gears etc.

Its not F/I. It does not advertise itself as F/I. Therefore, beyond belief, it's not going to drive like an F/I engine or indeed a larger displacement engine. Its a different driving ethos.

At the end of the day, people classically compare it to turbo cars and wonder why it isn't the same. It's a NASP engine that produces more power than the majority of similar and slightly higher displacement NASP engines. It doesn't have a snail pushing air in there and has to make compromises as a result, either you'll like it or you won't.

Its different, it's marmite, and if you've been driving turbo cars then its probably not going to be your cup of tea unless you open your mind a little.

Out of the next cars i'm looking at, 90% are F/I cars. Purely because VTEC can't give me the increase in power and speed i'm after (and I can't afford an NSX :) ). I just hope that i'm not so narrow minded and expect every F/I car i test to be a "VTEC on crack" experience.

I'm not saying everyone should like them, its obvious they won't, but some of the blanket sweeping statements plonked on this blue page make me cringe sometimes.

I've had mine for over a year and a half now and it still makes me smile everyday. It's no Evo killer but I don't pretend for a second that it is. I just enjoy dialling it up on a sliproad or B road and listening to it howl.

I'm off for a drive to wind my neck back in :)
 
Scarfacé said:
My mate let me drive his 2005 CTR for a day. It certainly wasn't slow and "torqueless" below 6000RPM.

Once you hit 6000RPM and computer says "new cam shaft please"... it becomes a different car and has enough go to put you firmly in your seat.
Click to expand...

The problem is that the Civic Type R (and indeed most VTEC cars) require a certain driving style to get the best from it, and that driving style isn't natural for a lot of people. For those willing to put in the effort to extract the last 10% of the cars performance, it's incredibly rewarding.

As James (who I'm 99% sure owned one) says, the interior is truely shocking and built for one thing only... the track. It felt like I was sitting in a giant card board box with two lovely recaro seats, a nice momo steering wheel and a couple of knobs.
Click to expand...

It is a little spartan, however I'm going to have to point you to the next part before I say much else...

Focus ST/Leon Cupra R are *much* better alternatives... although I understand the CTR can be picked up for cheap as chips now.
Click to expand...

Please don't tell me you think either of the above cars are better built than the Civic... The Leon is also too soft to be compared as a drivers car to the Civic IMO (I can't comment on the focus ST, I haven't driven one). The Leon feels like someone forgot to fit the sports suspension...

But as been said, they're NOT turbocharged... it's just a nomal 2 Litre NA engine with what is essentially multiple camshafts. It's power is fully unleased after 6kRPM. If you want that kind of torque all over the rev range then buy something with FI. :)
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Or something with a bigger NA engine (say a 130i or A3 3.2).
 
seems there is a new CTR in march 07

Further development of the Type R unit means more useable torque, as the switch to high-lift, long duration valve timing (the cam change) now takes place at a lower 5,200rpm, and continues all the way to 8,000rpm. So that screaming, high rpm VTEC range is broader and more accessible
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though im unsure about the styling atm :S
 
Noto said:
seems there is a new CTR in march 07
though im unsure about the styling atm :S
Click to expand...

The new CTR is marmite too, I am not impressed with it and will b avoiding one.

For all the info you will ever need on the type-r, join here
 
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