Civic Type R - graph and your views please..

Scarfacé · 26 Dec 2006 at 12:51

Dolph said:
It is a little spartan, however I'm going to have to point you to the next part before I say much else...

Please don't tell me you think either of the above cars are better built than the Civic... The Leon is also too soft to be compared as a drivers car to the Civic IMO (I can't comment on the focus ST, I haven't driven one). The Leon feels like someone forgot to fit the sports suspension...

The ST/LCR are IMO much better alternatives because they both offer much more than the CTR in respect to general needs. You think the LCR was too soft? Maybe compared to the CTR which feels like someone forget to fit any suspension at all.

PS The list price of the 130i is £10,000 more than a CTR. I don't think the kind of person going to buy a BMW 130i would be even looking at CTRS. Totally different cars which need to be driven completely different to get the best out of them.

Dolph · 26 Dec 2006 at 12:57

Scarfacé said:
The ST/LCR are IMO much better alternatives because they both offer much more than the CTR in respect to general needs. You think the LCR was too soft? Maybe compared to the CTR which feels like someone forget to fit any suspension at all.

When compared to the CTR, I certainly do. But if you're buying a CTR because that's the kind of car you want, that matters

I even had a good chat with the Seat dealership about it and they agreed. When really trying to press on across Dartmoor, the Leon definitely felt too soft compared with some of the other cars I've driven. It was comfier on the dual carriageway though.

I guess the difference is that you found the CTR too hard and I found the CTR about right, hence we disagree on comparisons

Having said that, my next car is most likely going to be a little softer than my current Civic, although quicker too.

Noto · 26 Dec 2006 at 13:04

what does F/I mean hehe (Sorry very new to these things)

Civic graph

Focus ST graph

Focus ST has a lot more torque esp at the lower revs. (Correct me if im wrong) But does this mean say im cruising along at 3000rpm in 4th, and just put the foot down it will be ok. Where as if i was in a CTR at 3000RPM in 4th id prob have to shift down to 3rd get into that 6000 RPM vtec range before i felt the kick?

Scarfacé · 26 Dec 2006 at 13:05

Dolph said:
When compared to the CTR, I certainly do. But if you're buying a CTR because that's the kind of car you want, that matters I even had a good chat with the Seat dealership about it and they agreed. When really trying to press on across Dartmoor, the Leon definitely felt too soft compared with some of the other cars I've driven. It was comfier on the dual carriageway though.

I guess the difference is that you found the CTR too hard and I found the CTR about right, hence we disagree on comparisons

Having said that, my next car is most likely going to be a little softer than my current Civic, although quicker too.

I don't think we disagree actually, we just have different needs from cars. The Civic Type-R I found the suspension was very hard, great for hooning about in, but on the motorway it was highly annoying. The all round perfect car for me in this class (which is my next car on the list) is a Focus ST. It's bloody fast, a great drivers car and still very nice and comfortable inside, whilst feeling very well built.

In short, I want a car that gives me a lot of pleasure to drive slow, as it does when I drive it fast. The CTR doesn't do this for me and is asking you to drive it hard all the time.

Matmulder · 26 Dec 2006 at 13:16

James_N said:
Save a bundle of cash and buy an ITR. It will be better in every way.

-Neil- · 26 Dec 2006 at 13:44

Matmulder said:
Save a bundle of cash and buy an ITR. It will be better in every way.

Neil.

Scarfacé · 26 Dec 2006 at 13:45

Noto said:
what does F/I mean hehe (Sorry very new to these things)

Civic graph

Focus ST graph

Focus ST has a lot more torque esp at the lower revs. (Correct me if im wrong) But does this mean say im cruising along at 3000rpm in 4th, and just put the foot down it will be ok. Where as if i was in a CTR at 3000RPM in 4th id prob have to shift down to 3rd get into that 6000 RPM vtec range before i felt the kick?

FI = Forced Induction as opposed to NA (Naturally Aspirated)

Eg. FI = Turbo Charged/Super Charged.

The ST is a 5 Cylinder 2.5 Litre Turbo Charged unit, which accounts for the nice high level of torque across the entire rev range.

Even though the ST is only approx 25bhp more powerful than the CTR, the masses of extra torque will make the car *much* more useable in day to day driving.

All I've got to say about this thread is...

Stephen B · 26 Dec 2006 at 14:37

owned and loved a prelude vtec for 3 years, not the best car for motorway driving as in my experience its impossible to own a vtec and keep your foot off the "wahhhh" pedal

but as previously and very accurately stated, if you enjoy driving and getting the most from an engine get a vtec, if your lazy and just like to annoy people with oodles of torque get a turbo.

keeping a vtec in the "zone" is one of the most rewarding experiences I have had in my driving history [previously owned v6's, and turbos], couple that with the legendary robustness of a vtec unit and I doubt you will find much to disappoint, but do be wary of insurance and petrol costs

Noto · 26 Dec 2006 at 18:48

Scarfacé said:
All I've got to say about this thread is...

That just made my day. He's like doing a Hard Gay Man FWOOOOOOO!

if you dont know how that is youtube "hard gay man" Very funny.

Serj · 26 Dec 2006 at 18:59

Noto said:
if you dont know how that is youtube "hard gay man" Very funny.

The last thing i'll be searching for on YouTube is 'hard gay man'

loltim · 26 Dec 2006 at 19:43

Scarfacé said:
I don't think we disagree actually, we just have different needs from cars. The Civic Type-R I found the suspension was very hard, great for hooning about in, but on the motorway it was highly annoying. The all round perfect car for me in this class (which is my next car on the list) is a Focus ST. It's bloody fast, a great drivers car and still very nice and comfortable inside, whilst feeling very well built.

In short, I want a car that gives me a lot of pleasure to drive slow, as it does when I drive it fast. The CTR doesn't do this for me and is asking you to drive it hard all the time.

If you think the CTR is bad on a motorway don't go anywhere near an ITR

I do agree though, they aren't great motorway cars but I don't care as I hardly ever use them. If I did do a lot of motorway miles I wouldn't have bought a CTR.

Agree with the keeping it in VTEC comment too, it's great fun! Just need my Gruppe M now

beast · 26 Dec 2006 at 19:45

Serj said:
The last thing i'll be searching for on YouTube is 'hard gay man'

Yes, me too. I like them lovely and soft

Noto · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:11

beast said:
Yes, me too. I like them lovely and soft

honestly guys search it. Its Japan's #1 comedy show at the moment. He's a former Pro wrestler turned comedian i guess. Even Jonathan Ross went out to seek him lol.

Totally off topic now but his catch phrase is FWOOOOO!! and he goes and storms yahoo head quaters in japan on one of them.

Anyways back onto topic i think the CTR or Focus ST seem to be the 2 in for the running now. Gonna go test drive a few cars and some alternatives and report back how it went

wassap · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:15

You wont find a MK2 st for under 15k tbh, still hard to get hold of brand new.

Scarfacé · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:15

Test drive the ST, you'll love it.

Just don't buy one in white with blue stripes, because that's what I'll be getting.

^^ Above is true. Although ST prices seem to be taking a tumble at the moment (whether it's due to the time of the year) but you can pick up ST2's for £15k without too much bother now.

Woohoo, are the waiting times from Ford still crazy?

Matt82 · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:15

depends what you want. if you want a fun/involved drive, get the civic R. if you want a barge, get a 5 series. they are chalk and cheese and very much a case of horses for courses and all that.

if youre a pipe and slippers driver, then dont get something manic, high revving and involving

Noto · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:33

Scarfacé said:
Test drive the ST, you'll love it.

Just don't buy one in white with blue stripes, because that's what I'll be getting.

^^ Above is true. Although ST prices seem to be taking a tumble at the moment (whether it's due to the time of the year) but you can pick up ST2's for £15k without too much bother now.

Woohoo, are the waiting times from Ford still crazy?

15k brand new?

mad_allan · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:34

Noto said:
15k brand new?

2nd hand

wassap · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:38

Scarfacé said:
Test drive the ST, you'll love it.

Just don't buy one in white with blue stripes, because that's what I'll be getting.

^^ Above is true. Although ST prices seem to be taking a tumble at the moment (whether it's due to the time of the year) but you can pick up ST2's for £15k without too much bother now.

Woohoo, are the waiting times from Ford still crazy?

Apparently so according to folks on the stoc forum, you want a ST3 anyway, the 2 has the garish coloured seats which will age really badly.

15k will buy you a relative high miler from what i have seen, prob been thrashed too.

wassap · 26 Dec 2006 at 20:42

Noto said:
15k brand new?

The car is quite new and has been short supply so s/h prices are quite high, new the ST2 (xenons,esp,and mp3 cd player) is 17.9k and the ST3 (xenons,esp,heated leather,heated screents and 6 disc cdc) 19.9k, its really difficult to get discounts on them too.

If you are looking at spending 15k, then also look at the Golf Gti.