Clean and Press questions

BennyC

BennyC

BennyC

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25 Sep 2006
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Hi guys,

I watched a link Freefaller posted in the gym rats thread of Flex Lewis. In his shoulder workout he recommended Clean and Press.

I gave it ago today the best of my knowledge. Obviously the last part is a simple shoulder press movement but for the first I wasn't quite sure if im doing it right...

The clean movement, when not lifting from the floor, seems very similar to an upright row? I tried not to use a rowing motion but found that the tops of my forearms began to pump like when used to do reverse grip bicep curls, is this normal? or do I not quite have it right?

If somebody could explain this particular lift for me that'd be great! any advice or tips are welcome too! :)

Benny C
 
It's just like the end of the a powerclean. So you deadlift it up to your hips as per normal, then whilst you've got it there, you then do the powerclean flick to get it up to chest/shoulders, and then press it up, or push-press if you need a bit of help. He keeps it quite a bit away from his body and makes it look like a bit of an upright row, but it's not at all. Also he's not using a heavy weight anyway.
 
Freefaller said:
It's just like the end of the a powerclean. So you deadlift it up to your hips as per normal, then whilst you've got it there, you then do the powerclean flick to get it up to chest/shoulders, and then press it up, or push-press if you need a bit of help. He keeps it quite a bit away from his body and makes it look like a bit of an upright row, but it's not at all. Also he's not using a heavy weight anyway.
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Thanks

I've not actually given powercleaning a proper attempt yet, theres just about enough space, but if I were to fall it'd be backwards onto the back of the shoulder press!

I'll get my form on powercleans sorted and then I should know what im doing for clean and press.
 
I was always taught that the bar should basically travel straight up when cleaning (i.e. if you were holding the bar 5" from the body, the bar would always travel 5" from the body no matter what stage you were at in the clean) which is something thats worth remembering.

There is a great diagram in one of my weightlifting books, I'll try and scan it in for you later.
 
They are a great exercise.

I started doing cleans again in Poland (albeit lightly as I'm nervous about the hernia - which apparently has cleared up), so in a few weeks I'm hoping to get some videos up.
 
That was another question I had about the press actually. Should the press be static? by this I mean with no use of the legs, so purely arms and shoulders. Or can you vary? For example: Clean and Press, Clean and Push Press, Powerclean to press and Powerclean to push press?
 
Press and push press are 2 different exercises. Push press is good to get that last rep out if you control the down (eccentric) movement, but pushpress can remove up to 50% of the "weight" that you're lifting depending on the speed. Press alone is very much an isolation exercises, though standing press obviously is more core-centric as you're standing having to balance the bar.
 
Freefaller said:
Press and push press are 2 different exercises. Push press is good to get that last rep out if you control the down (eccentric) movement, but pushpress can remove up to 50% of the "weight" that you're lifting depending on the speed. Press alone is very much an isolation exercises, though standing press obviously is more core-centric as you're standing having to balance the bar.
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I see. In relation to all the presses listed they would be standing, although after cleaning sitting down and then pressing could be interesting! Would really isolate the shoulders but remove all core work.

Ideally a standard isolation press would be recommended after the clean, but when beginning to struggle with the last few reps a push press will suffice provided the negative is controlled? correct?
 
Correct.

It's quite easy. Deadlift the bar. Then do the powerclean flick. Then just press it up. LEt it come down in a controlled manner to your chest, flick it back to your hips and repeat. :)

I prefer doing my shoulder press standing. But then again I do military pres without the backrest anyway.

Pushpress I'm good for a few reps on 90kg - I want to build up to 100kg+ on push press though.
 
Freefaller said:
Then do the powerclean flick.
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Is this really all there is to it? I was worried my form was incorrect as I wasnt getting my glutes in to help thrust forward and add to the 'flick.' This part of the movement is basically all upper body, probably traps given how mine felt after I first did them?
 
Oh there is a bend at the knees and leg and hip involvement but it is very dominant on the back, shoulders and traps, I didn't want to give the whole movement steps but I can if people think it would help?
 
Sorry I just meant that individual part of the movement rather than the whole movement not involving legs. When i've done it the flick has been very much my upper body and I was worried I wasn't getting hams/glutes/hips into it correctly to add power to the flick as such, but this isnt the aim? Obviously the legs/hips are important when getting the bar from the floor. I mean it in the sense that leg drive isn't expected to add to the flicking motion?
 
Freefaller said:
Pushpress I'm good for a few reps on 90kg - I want to build up to 100kg+ on push press though.
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I'm surprised thats not higher! I worked up to some 70kg push presses and I thought they were weak :o I would expect to working up to around 90kg soon

edit: although it does depend on speed...
 
Freefaller said:
Oh there is a bend at the knees and leg and hip involvement but it is very dominant on the back, shoulders and traps, I didn't want to give the whole movement steps but I can if people think it would help?
Click to expand...

Trying to simplify it some more for myself, sounds a bit like a shrug but then flicking the wrists/bar up onto your chest at the peak?

I'm aware I shouldn't do the powerclean flick and then drop with my legs so that the thighs are parralell to the floor and then push from there as this then becomes a clean and squat, which is what is necesary for much much heavy weights, but I figure it removes workload from the back shoulders and traps? which isn't what I want to be doing.

If you wouldn't mind running through the steps Freefaller i'd appreciate it :)
 
gareth.e said:
I'm surprised thats not higher! I worked up to some 70kg push presses and I thought they were weak :o I would expect to working up to around 90kg soon

edit: although it does depend on speed...
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Remember I've dislocated my shoulder in the past and as such have a weakness there. WSM do 140kg push presses, so 100kg isn't weak by any stretch of the imagination!

Shicky said:
Sorry I just meant that individual part of the movement rather than the whole movement not involving legs. When i've done it the flick has been very much my upper body and I was worried I wasn't getting hams/glutes/hips into it correctly to add power to the flick as such, but this isnt the aim? Obviously the legs/hips are important when getting the bar from the floor. I mean it in the sense that leg drive isn't expected to add to the flicking motion?
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The key to the powerclean is to keep the bar in movement, if the bar stops you're going to have to do a lot more work to get it up. I always put a bit of a bend in the knees as I do the flick so as my elbows whip round I push up at the same time. It's a very trap/delt/back dominant exercise, but leg/glute/ham activation is also very much involved.

Benny06 said:
Trying to simplify it some more for myself, sounds a bit like a shrug but then flicking the wrists/bar up onto your chest at the peak?

I'm aware I shouldn't do the powerclean flick and then drop with my legs so that the thighs are parralell to the floor and then push from there as this then becomes a clean and squat, which is what is necesary for much much heavy weights, but I figure it removes workload from the back shoulders and traps? which isn't what I want to be doing.

If you wouldn't mind running through the steps Freefaller i'd appreciate it :)
Click to expand...

You don't need to bend to a front squat, a but a small bend in the knees is necessary to get that explosion. The first part of the lift is relatively slow, once the bar is up to your knees is when you bend and explode and flick the bar up. You need to let your elbows whip under the bar. I've posted my vids of powercleans but you can't really see the technique that clearly as the quality isn't brilliant.

Here's a kid actually doing really good form powercleans:


You can see he's relatively slow up, then contracts his lats, pushes his hips forward and flicks the elbow under the bar, but that will cause a bend in the knees, and that's fine. It's about speed and timing.
 
Do your feet leave the ground when flicking it round? I thought this was meant to be best but that guy seems to just go onto his toes.

Also when setting up he seems quite far away from the bar, when I set up for deads and therefore cleans, the bar is right against my shin. Then again he seems fairly tall and im a midget so proper stance can differ largely
 
I hate losing half the skin on my shins so try and keep it a few inches away, but whatever feels comfortable for you initially. Some people jump, some don't.

Here's another good vid with jumping included... and she's easy on the eye!

 
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