Codemasters builds DX12 support into its EGO Engine 4.0

[TheRealDeal]

Lets be honest most will not have moved on. Most in here maybe but on the larger scale most will be using older tech. The gtx970 will probably have a huge user base if the steam survey is correct.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Lets be honest most will not have moved on. Most in here maybe but on the larger scale most will be using older tech. The gtx970 will probably have a huge user base if the steam survey is correct.

Agreed. Plenty of people I know who have new PCs or needed an upgrade who have bought a GTX960/GTX970/R9 380/R9 390. People forget that until the new AMD and Nvidia cards drop,people will still be buying the current ones.

Plus I doubt in most cases someone who,say bought a GTX970 or R9 390,at Christmas would be ditching them in a year.

2017 is going to be very interesting IMHO.

 

[Gregster]

Surely Pascal/Polaris DX12 performance is more the issue than the current drop of cards?

By the time we really have enough DX12 games for it to be an issue we should hopefully have the next gen of GPUs.

The people that are really worried about performance will probably upgrade, especially given this next gen is expected to be a big leap forward. The people that don't shouldn't expect to be getting cutting edge high-end performance. I'm sure we all know and accept that if you're using an older GPU you have to be prepared to sacrifice fps or image quality.
I don't expect to be able to max out DX12 games on my 7950 (not that I'm using it currently). In the same way I don't expect my 290Xs, 980s or Fury Xs to perfectly support every capability of DX12 either.

Pascal/Polaris having issues is a different matter as I'd expect both parties to have gone into designing them with DX12 being much more of a known factor.

Spot on.

Lets be honest most will not have moved on. Most in here maybe but on the larger scale most will be using older tech. The gtx970 will probably have a huge user base if the steam survey is correct.

I never once took into account DX12 when buying my Titan X (or Fury X come to think of it) and seeing the populace getting excited for DX12 had me looking into it quite deep and Nvidia are poor at Async and AMD are poor at ROVs/CR, it is much a muchness and if they don't upgrade, then that is that (and I include myself in that). DX10 was the same iirc and I sat on the fence when that first came out and made my upgrade choice when the dust had settled and went with a 4850 (long time ago but sure that was it).

 

[TheRealDeal]

Spot on.



I never once took into account DX12 when buying my Titan X (or Fury X come to think of it) and seeing the populace getting excited for DX12 had me looking into it quite deep and Nvidia are poor at Async and AMD are poor at ROVs/CR, it is much a muchness and if they don't upgrade, then that is that (and I include myself in that). DX10 was the same iirc and I sat on the fence when that first came out and made my upgrade choice when the dust had settled and went with a 4850 (long time ago but sure that was it).

You are not the norm though. I don't know anybody in real life willing to pay over £800 for a graphics card. In my circle of friends only a few play PC's. The hardcore gamers of them have mainly my class of machine and only one has what i would say is up with your type of machine.

 

[Gregster]

You are not the norm though. I don't know anybody in real life willing to pay over £800 for a graphics card. In my circle of friends only a few play PC's. The hardcore gamers of them have mainly my class of machine and only one has what i would say is up with your type of machine.

If it helps, I also don't know anybody personally who would spend £800+ on a single GPU but I do know a few people who upgrade their GPUs quite a bit and I have done it for a few of them and built a couple of console gamers a PC and one of them is already asking me about DX12 and what should he buy (like I know lol). You have to remember that I am old enough now to remember all the way back to the days of Spectrums and typing out programs from a magazine to consoles to Amiga's to PCs and it is only the last few years have I been able to afford the top end and always been happy at the lower to mid section.

What I buy doesn't go with my advice for others and like I told my mate, don't upgrade his 290 CF till we know what is what and DX12 is out in a couple of games at least.

 

[andybird123]

Agreed. Plenty of people I know who have new PCs or needed an upgrade who have bought a GTX960/GTX970/R9 380/R9 390. People forget that until the new AMD and Nvidia cards drop,people will still be buying the current ones.

Plus I doubt in most cases someone who,say bought a GTX970 or R9 390,at Christmas would be ditching them in a year.

2017 is going to be very interesting IMHO.

then they are stuck between the rock that is poor AMD DX11 performance, and the hard place that is a currently unknown situation with Nvidia on DX12

people are talking like the 970 suddenly becomes utter rubbish, but looking back at the bench articles from when AoTS went live, there's still only single digit FPS differences between the 970 and 390, just that instead of the 970 being on top, the 390 is, but its still less than 5% either way, so people who have been buying the 970 aren't suddenly left holding a door stop

what is clear is that there shouldn't be any situation where a game actually runs worse on DX12 than it does on DX11... the whole point of DX12 is its supposed to be lower overhead, at the very worst it should be on par with DX11, its not a hardware problem because the hardware is showing better results on DX11, so the problem is somewhere in the software stack

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I think it's a bit silly if people use old tech and expect it to perform as well as new tech and support software that wasn't around when it was designed.
What's the point of Pascal/Polaris if a 280 can perform just as well as it in DX12?
I hope they add new tech into the next gen that DX12 can take advantage of. If every new DX has to cater for 3 year old hardware and nothing newer then how do we expect things to move on?

Yes there are more casual PC owners/gamers that won't upgrade, but they're probably not bothered by Async compute or whatever, they just want to club prostitues to death and drive off in a stolen car when GTA 6 comes out. If GTA 6 and GTA 7 can be maxed out on a GTX 960 then what's the point? I want games to push hardware so that we see the benefit of new hardware. If that means that owners of GTX 960s have to turn settings down then so be it. Surely they knew this would happen? If you have to turn down settings does it matter why? Does it make a difference if your card doesn't have the VRAM bandwidth or the Async Compute performance if at the end of the day the result is the same? I'm sure Titan X, 980Ti and Fury X owners like me don't expect their cards to max out games forever. If every game runs as well on my Fury X as it does the top end Polaris card then how do AMD expect to make money?

 

[tommybhoy]

Talking about current tech mate, your making it sound like it's a hard ask looking for performance improvements on different api's with previous gen gpu's, even AMD pulled that off

people are talking like the 970 suddenly becomes utter rubbish

Me?

 

[TheRealDeal]

If it helps, I also don't know anybody personally who would spend £800+ on a single GPU but I do know a few people who upgrade their GPUs quite a bit and I have done it for a few of them and built a couple of console gamers a PC and one of them is already asking me about DX12 and what should he buy (like I know lol). You have to remember that I am old enough now to remember all the way back to the days of Spectrums and typing out programs from a magazine to consoles to Amiga's to PCs and it is only the last few years have I been able to afford the top end and always been happy at the lower to mid section.

What I buy doesn't go with my advice for others and like I told my mate, don't upgrade his 290 CF till we know what is what and DX12 is out in a couple of games at least.

While you are older than me i also grew up in the 80's with my first gaming console being the atari 2900. I have played games on just about every platform to exist. My first computer was an Amiga 1200 (waste of time due to no games using the extra power). PC gaming since 2000 and used to high end machine but unlike yourself i don't go the extra mile these days on hardware.

The main point i was making is PC hardware like ours and especially yours is not very common. On the average i would say the ps4 is much more powerful than what most people game on PC wise.

 

[Gregster]

While you are older than me i also grew up in the 80's with my first gaming console being the atari 2900. I have played games on just about every platform to exist. My first computer was an Amiga 1200 (waste of time due to no games using the extra power). PC gaming since 2000 and used to high end machine but unlike yourself i don't go the extra mile these days on hardware.

The main point i was making is PC hardware like ours and especially yours is not very common. On the average i would say the ps4 is much more powerful than what most people game on PC wise.

Geoff Cramond's Grand Prix was awesome on the 1200 compared to the 500, as was Microprose Golf but yer, not much used the extra power. Commodore really annoyed me with how good they were but couldn't market for **** and hence they went bust. I was totally gutted but the PC was getting stronger, as was consoles and whilst the CD32 had potential, it just lacked interest.

And yer, not many are like us but I would hate for stagnation just to appease those on old tech and give me another Crysis please

 

[TheRealDeal]

Surely Pascal/Polaris DX12 performance is more the issue than the current drop of cards?

By the time we really have enough DX12 games for it to be an issue we should hopefully have the next gen of GPUs.

The people that are really worried about performance will probably upgrade, especially given this next gen is expected to be a big leap forward. The people that don't shouldn't expect to be getting cutting edge high-end performance. I'm sure we all know and accept that if you're using an older GPU you have to be prepared to sacrifice fps or image quality.
I don't expect to be able to max out DX12 games on my 7950 (not that I'm using it currently). In the same way I don't expect my 290Xs, 980s or Fury Xs to perfectly support every capability of DX12 either.

Pascal/Polaris having issues is a different matter as I'd expect both parties to have gone into designing them with DX12 being much more of a known factor.

5% yea Humbugs gtx970 is getting stomped at around average 40% between dx11 and 12.


DX12
Average FR 48.8, GPU TitanX @1409/1652, Normal FR 57.1, Medium FR 48.8, Heavy FR 42.6, CPU 3930k @4.4, Gregster Link
Average FR 47.3, GPU 980 Ti @1484/1974, Normal FR 58.7, Medium FR 46.2, Heavy FR 40.5, CPU 5820k @4.625, andybird123 Link
Average FR 43.4, GPU Fury X @1120/560, Normal FR 49.3, Medium FR 42.1, Heavy FR 39.9, CPU 3770k @4.2, Dygaza Link
Average FR 38.0, GPU Fury X @1050/500, Normal FR 47.2, Medium FR 37.9, Heavy FR 31.9, CPU 5930k @4.375, muziqaz Link
Average FR 36.0, GPU TitanX @1400/1866, Normal FR 45.5, Medium FR 35.6, Heavy FR 30.0, CPU 5930k @4.3, Streetlight Link
Average FR 33.6, GPU 290P @1285/1500, Normal FR 41.0, Medium FR 33.9, Heavy FR 28.3, CPU FX-9590 @5.0, Streetlight Link
Average FR 33.2, GPU 290P @1190/1300, Normal FR 41.7, Medium FR 33.3, Heavy FR 27.6, CPU 4790k @4.7, thebennyboy Link
Average FR 21.7, GPU 970 @1450/1900, Normal FR 27.2, Medium FR 20.8, Heavy FR 18.7, CPU FX-9590 @4.6, humbug Link


DX11
Average FR 39.0, GPU TitanX @1471/2002, Normal FR 53.6, Medium FR 39.2, Heavy FR 30.5, CPU 5960X @4.5, Kaapstad Link
Average FR 22.6, GPU 970 @1450/1900, Normal FR 29.7, Medium FR 22.3, Heavy FR 18.4, CPU FX-9590 @4.6, humbug Link

If this holds true only the top end Mxwell will compete in dx12. This makes no sense to me though but this result looks pretty bad for anything below the 980ti as he's overclocked and still getting wasted.

 

[Gregster]

So my Titan X is well over twice as fast as a 970?

 

[TheRealDeal]

So my Titan X is well over twice as fast as a 970?

Thats why its not making sense to me but in every other bench his card is fine. He's probably running the slower cracked version but from memory that would still leave him around 36fps and percentage 20% slower than the 290's with the best dx11 result. I think the gain from the newer version was around 20% could have been lower or higher.

 

[Gregster]

Thats why its not making sense to me but in every other bench his card is fine. He's probably running the slower cracked version but from memory that would still leave him around 36 percent and 20% slower than the 290's with the best dx11 result

I did point at the naughty copy earlier but that got missed and clearly a Titan X/980Ti and Fury X are not twice as fast as a 970, so something is amiss.

 

[TheRealDeal]

I did point at the naughty copy earlier but that got missed and clearly a Titan X/980Ti and Fury X are not twice as fast as a 970, so something is amiss.

It still does not change the fact that Maxwell seems to be less effective when scaled down. Fury x can't keep up with the 980ti/Titan X yet the 290p curb stomps a gtx970.

 

[Gregster]

It still does not change the fact that Maxwell seems to be less effective when scaled down. Fury x can't keep up with the 980ti/Titan X yet the 290p curb stomps a gtx970.

Well it does lol. We only have Humbug and his questionable copy to go by and you have said yourself that in other benches, it looks ok. Show me another DX12 bench and you might well be on to something but for now we only have AoTS and I am not basing DX12 performance on a benchmark that has DX11 running even faster on Nvidia hardware over the supposedly faster DX12 API. Clearly something is up with that. Drivers/DX12 whatever.

 

[Geeman1979]

Well it does lol. We only have Humbug and his questionable copy to go by and you have said yourself that in other benches, it looks ok. Show me another DX12 bench and you might well be on to something but for now we only have AoTS and I am not basing DX12 performance on a benchmark that has DX11 running even faster on Nvidia hardware over the supposedly faster DX12 API. Clearly something is up with that. Drivers/DX12 whatever.

Humbugs ***** AMD Cpu slowing his 970 down

 

[Gregster]

Humbugs ***** AMD Cpu slowing his 970 down

I did check and he is almost at 100% but even in DX12 it can't get to 100% :

 

[Mauller]

I would like to just jump in and state that the AOTS benchmark is a FULL SYSTEM benchmark. The Benchmark is running a full game simulation so it is benchmarking your CPU and GPU.

TL;DR, CPU performance is just as big a part as GPU performance in the AOTS Benchmark. An overclocked CPU can improve the score since its not a pure GPU benchmark.

Also, i don't know if they fixed the issue but AMD FX processors were under performing in DX12 compared to how they should. Was a tweet i read by one of the devs a while ago. But not sure if they fixed it in a newer build.

 

[Gregster]

Good info that Mauller