Cold start issue

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2017 at 13:32

bainbridge said:
Have you checked for fault codes?

yup the only fault code relates to engine running lean, which started happening after this issue.

Have replaced a vacuum pipe which the garage thought would sort that, he said if it doesn't he would replace the MAF next.
My normal garage is going to sort out an exhaust leak end of next week, and if that doesn't cure the lean running, we will look at cleaning/replacing the MAF.
I don't think the lean running is in relation to the cold start issue, simply because it started happening afterwards and it happens wether on petrol or Gas.

bainbridge · 27 Sep 2017 at 14:02

What about the throttle body? 148k worth of gunk wouldn't be helping, unless this has already been done (you've done quite a bit already trying to solve this).

Kaka · 27 Sep 2017 at 14:04

I don't think it's anything related to your LPG system as I had pretty much the same issue on my non-LPG ST220.

I didn't manage to find out what the fault was as it occurred a few months before I moved it on, but this was what I tried:

Replaced all spark plugs with new ones.
Check coil pack/HT leads.
Replaced fuel filter.
Check and recharged battery with battery conditioner.
Cleaned MAF.

I seem to remember that it wasn't as bad if the fuel tank was full, so the problem may have been the fuel pump (in my case at least).

MatteH Oxford · 27 Sep 2017 at 17:34

Did the garage do a compression check?

Gaygle · 27 Sep 2017 at 18:42

I still think fuel pump. They can do funny things when they go. Can't you get a good quality secondhand replacement to test?

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2017 at 20:35

To be fair whilst googling my little fingers off Fuel pump has come up as a common theme on this car.

Its just that it runs perfectly in all other conditions which steers me away from it.

Could it be a fuel pressure regulator that is allowing fuel to leak back out of the loop in to the tank, therefore when starting the car i have to pump more fuel through the line before it will start ?
Not knowing enough about cars I don't know if my little test last night of priming the pump 10 times would negate the effects of that ?
Or even if I would get more issues if it was the FPR.

I'll ask my mechanic if he can do compression test and also check the coolant temp sensor whilst its in.
It is having a fair bit of work done though so not sure if he'll have time. (rear sub frame bushes, front brake caliper replacement on both sides, slight oil leak, blowing exhaust/manifold and a service)

MassiveJim · 27 Sep 2017 at 20:38

oops DP

MatteH Oxford · 28 Sep 2017 at 07:51

I have a fuel pressure gauge you can borrow if you're close(ish) to Oxfordshire/Wiltshire?

MassiveJim · 28 Sep 2017 at 13:42

MatteH Oxford said:
I have a fuel pressure gauge you can borrow if you're close(ish) to Oxfordshire/Wiltshire?

nowhere near lol. I'm in Derbyshire

Amp34 · 29 Sep 2017 at 02:08

Agreed with the others. It sounds like a fuel pump issue. I had something that sounds similar and couldn’t get to the bottom of it because it was so intermittent. After it failing to start completely and flooded the engine the mechanic worked out it was the fuel pump on its way out. Basically still pumping fuel but at too low a pressure to atomism properly causing minor/major flooding on a cold start. Replacement pump sorted it.

MassiveJim · 29 Sep 2017 at 13:26

Amp34 said:
Agreed with the others. It sounds like a fuel pump issue. I had something that sounds similar and couldn’t get to the bottom of it because it was so intermittent. After it failing to start completely and flooded the engine the mechanic worked out it was the fuel pump on its way out. Basically still pumping fuel but at too low a pressure to atomism properly causing minor/major flooding on a cold start. Replacement pump sorted it.

Interesting, will certainly look to get a proper pressure test done in that case.
Could this still be the case even though at all other times the car drives completely fine, and still pulls hard right through the rev range in both 3rd and 4th ?

The LPG place did check fuel pressure but only through diagnostic comp, not with an inline tester. Said it was reading ok. (He definitely told me 3Bar on the phone, I just can't remember if he said "about 3 bar I can't quite remember or "3 bar") I know this pump should be running about 4.5Bar though

Amp34 · 29 Sep 2017 at 16:36

I had no issues at any other time. After the initial cold start it showed no other symptoms and drove normally.

Definitely worth getting it checked. I believe it’s pretty easy to check as well. I feel your pain as our car went in about three times trying to figure the damn thing out, same issue as you, even after sitting for 24 hours the problem didn’t occur when they started it up.

MassiveJim · 29 Sep 2017 at 23:23

it seems to be getting worse or at least more consistent.
parked up for half an hour earlier and it did it when I came back to the car but didn't take as long to start.
It seems to be now that the longer the car is left the longer it needs to crank over before starting.

MatteH Oxford · 30 Sep 2017 at 09:55

A healthy pump should constantly draw around 8amp when running, it's such an easy thing to check I'm surprised it wasn't already picked up if it is defective?. A weak pump would be drawing a much lower load.

Also: Don't LPG cars always startup by using the regular petrol supply?

MassiveJim · 30 Sep 2017 at 10:15

MatteH Oxford said:
Also: Don't LPG cars always startup by using the regular petrol supply?

Yup

MassiveJim · 2 Oct 2017 at 23:31

A little update on this.
PO443 is now cropping up, which relates to the CRV valve.
I guess it is getting stuck open and allowing fuel vapour to fill the inlet manifold whilst the car is stood, and also the car is pulling additional air down the vacuum lines.

BUT Ford no longer stock this part, on their system it says "in the case where the part needs replacing, please reuse old valve" It is/was part of a kit which includes the 2 pipes.
I have found a German seller on ebay selling them though so part has been ordered, but have to wait for it to arrive now.

Hopefully this cures it

MatteH Oxford · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:34

The evap valve stuck open would mean the car is actually running far too lean on a cold startup, that's the likely cause of your problem. Fuel vapour would be present, but a lot more air would be in that mix.

MassiveJim · 3 Oct 2017 at 12:53

MatteH Oxford said:
The evap valve stuck open would mean the car is actually running far too lean on a cold startup, that's the likely cause of your problem. Fuel vapour would be present, but a lot more air would be in that mix.

you would think, but this problem only occurs when the car has been left for a period of time, so something has to slowly leak or get worse whilst the car is stood in order for me to have the problem.

If I crank the car for 30 seconds and then it starts, then immediately turn it back off again (so nothing has had chance to warm up etc) it will then start up straight away, just like normal.

I'll fit the new PCV when it arrives anyway and see if it makes a difference or not

MassiveJim · 9 Oct 2017 at 23:42

PCV changed aaaaaaaand, no difference, still struggling to start

Exhaust leak fixed on front of engine (I think this is bank 1), still getting lean running on Bank 2, although there was an error code relating to the bank 1 sensor 1 O2 sensor.

wedrum · 9 Oct 2017 at 23:58

Shift it on and buy another car