compensation...

talbotsean · 19 May 2007 at 00:58

You're reasons for hard hats aren't appropriate. Your reasons for non slip shoes are. I've never slipped wearing my boots but one day I guess I will... Green flash aren't non slip. Go on, sue, it's the latest fashion.

Jet · 19 May 2007 at 01:29

fini said:
The Bolam test is increasingly applied to less and less intricate skills though. Whilst the Bolam test started out as medical only it's now used in pretty much any tortious situation where a specialist skill is held. A quick search shows up it being used in:
A v Hoare; H v Suffolk County Council; X and Y v Wandsworth London Borough - a teacher
R (on the application of Bramall) v The Law Society - a solicitor
Carty v London Borough of Croydon - local education authority
Great North Eastern Railway Limited v Hart and others - proffessional highway and bridge designers
etc.

It's also worth mentioning that in this scenario it wouldn't be used against the council workers who installed the manhole, but the person that decided that type of manhole cover should be used - which is probably some civil servant as it'll probably have been decided centrally for all council civil engineering jobs. As such, it is to say that the procurement of materials for council civil engineering jobs is a pretty specific skill set.

All of those cases concern important professions, all of which require a degree or very high qualifications. Deciding which manhole cover to use does not need any qualifications at all, a reasonable person is more than capable of making such a decision.

You're right the manhole cover may have been selected by a civil servant and he may well have a degree and be a professional but the actual task of selecting manholes doesn't require special abilities or skill. The Bolam test won't apply to such minor decisions and no case has ever applied to such trivial matters.

Also, there is not going to be a responsible body of opinion on manhole covers. Not in the same vein as the General Medical Council, etc, anyway.

If we consider for a moment that the Bolam test does apply what about the council arguing that paving slabs are the industry standard and anyone tripping on them can't sue. It will depend on the insallation of the slabs, much like this case.

talbotsean · 19 May 2007 at 02:03

Just a cotton picking moment here.

We're talking about someone who had an accident. Why, all of a sudden is it always someone elses fault? What happened to people being clumsy, having accidents?

Where do you think your compensation money comes from? From US!

It's like falling down a 3 foot diameter hole blaming the hole maker.. open your eyes, if you fall down the hole you should have been paying attention.

If you slip on snow, are you going to try and sue Mother Nature?

silversurfer · 19 May 2007 at 02:11

I know the type he is talking about and they can be slippy. I'd say its a fair claim if only so they dont use that type again.
They arent suitable for pedestrians, definetly not in a road and a designated pathway.

Biohazard · 19 May 2007 at 02:14

Nice A10 there!

silversurfer · 19 May 2007 at 02:23

It has triple redundancy dont yer know :cool:

If Penski had only taken the same attitude he would have been walking while wearing non slip shoes, a crash helmet and bikers leather jacket with spine protector

talbotsean · 19 May 2007 at 02:27

silversurfer said:
I know the type he is talking about and they can be slippy. I'd say its a fair claim if only so they don't use that type again.
They aren't suitable for pedestrians, definitely not in a road and a designated pathway.

Next you'll be saying that shoe manufactures shouldn't be using rubber chemistry without having tested it first on every single manhole cover, or any other underfoot human encounter. Get real! What happened to common sense and prevalence of said common sense?

Andrew Leitch · 19 May 2007 at 04:12

penski said:
...well this is a thread that I never thought I would be making.

today marks the end of the second week which I have been signed off sick from work. it looks like I will be signed off for another 2-4 weeks at least.

the reason I am off is due to a back injury sustained after slipping on a wet manhole cover, doing the full-on feet-in-the-air comedy fall...and landing on the top of my spine/shoulder.

For someone who's damaged their spine and shoulders and injured enough to be off work and ''in an inordinate amount of pain 24 hours a day''.....you seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of typing.

Doohickey · 19 May 2007 at 04:25

Andrew Leitch said:
For someone who's damaged their spine and shoulders and injured enough to be off work and ''in an inordinate amount of pain 24 hours a day''.....you seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of typing.

I mean, I've never taken any lessons on correct typing posture or anything, but I don't ever recall putting any stress on my spine when typing. Least of all on a pda...

kippermitten · 19 May 2007 at 04:26

Andrew Leitch said:
For someone who's damaged their spine and shoulders and injured enough to be off work and ''in an inordinate amount of pain 24 hours a day''.....you seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of typing.

Penski uses a moby fone pda WM5 thang which means you can type qwerty style with little movement.

The point raised here is was the manhole in question fit for purpose and safe. I hate the whole blame culture thing but if i wrecked myself on street furniture that was unfit for purpose and or dangerous Id be making a claim.

Penski: http://www.mrvanx.org/cms/ and http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=254 for all your HTC Tytn/Hermes and Vario II needs :-)

The Pro Black 3.01 rom update and seperate radio update are the best things I did with mine.

Andrew Leitch · 19 May 2007 at 05:22

Doohickey said:
I mean, I've never taken any lessons on correct typing posture or anything, but I don't ever recall putting any stress on my spine when typing. Least of all on a pda...

Whatever, but forum posts have been used as evidence in court cases.
Claiming to be in severe pain but still having enough mobility to type out several hundred words could be used against the OP.

FWIW, I fractured my femur from a fall at work in Sept 06....whilst waiting for an operation I was on morphine for two days. Was off work for 7 months, lost over £13k in wages and I'm now permanently disabled with limited mobility.

I have a claim ongoing as my employer failed to ensure a safe working environment.

I have every sympathy with genuine injuries but people who try it on make me sick.

toosepin · 19 May 2007 at 06:51

Go and sand the manhole cover down then call the council

Pookie Bear · 19 May 2007 at 09:39

Hey Penski, hard lines fella. That sucks.

Whereabouts was it? I can go grab some pics for you if you want......besides, I wanna go see for myself. I avoid manhole covers like the plague, wet or dry, myself, but sometimes you don't have much choice

trojan698 · 19 May 2007 at 09:56

Surely it doesn't matter what the manhole cover was made of? Wet metal is always slippy!!?

fini · 19 May 2007 at 10:28

Jet said:
You're right the manhole cover may have been selected by a civil servant and he may well have a degree and be a professional but the actual task of selecting manholes doesn't require special abilities or skill. Also, there is not going to be a responsible body of opinion on manhole covers.

Do you know this? I know I don't. I mean I'd presume that as there are lots of different manhole covers there'd be a responsible body of opinion on them - but I don't know that... I also know I wouldn't have a clue as to how to pick out a suitable manhole cover for a specific task.

AtreuS · 19 May 2007 at 10:41

If its the type of cover i think you are on about then i really dont think its the type that should be used in a heavy use pedestrian area... more like in someones yard or in an out of the way area. Ones used in high use areas are surely supposed to have good enough "tread" on them to prevent slipping in the wet.

If the wrong type of cover is fitted then yes the council are to blame and you rightly can seek recompense for your injuries and lost earnings. If its a normal type thats allowed then looks like its tough monkies. Best people to talk to would be a lawyer and or the CAB.

scratch · 19 May 2007 at 11:49

I also own a pair of green flash and I hate to say it but they are terrible in the wet. I've slipped up quite a few times. They're great in the dry but show them any kind of water and they'll have you on your bum in seconds.

Knowing what the shoes are like I think your case would get ripped apart in court. You slipped up because of your shoes and I don't think seeking compensation is the right thing to do.

Andy

penski · 19 May 2007 at 12:02

Andrew Leitch said:
For someone who's damaged their spine and shoulders and injured enough to be off work and ''in an inordinate amount of pain 24 hours a day''.....you seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of typing.

I'm currently sitting bolt upright and I am holding my phone on my belly. my arms and shoulders are completely relaxed and I only need to move my thumbs...it is not difficult to type like this although I can imagine that if I were at a desk with a keyboard, I would be using my arms and shoulders a lot.

*n

SexyGreyFox · 19 May 2007 at 12:26

Andrew Leitch said:
For someone who's damaged their spine and shoulders and injured enough to be off work and ''in an inordinate amount of pain 24 hours a day''.....you seem to be doing an extraordinary amount of typing.

That Stephen Hawkins puts it on too.

Munkyman · 19 May 2007 at 12:40

I know this might sound stupid but, couldn't the council have built the island away from the manhole cover. After all, they must know that metal gets slippy when wet.

Get well soon Penski