Computer store charges

This is the reason why diagnostic charges exist. If the customer comes in and says "it's broken, how much to fix it?" then you're going to have to spend some time working out what's wrong. If you do that for free then you're giving away a lot of man hours. If someone comes in and says "my hard drive has failed, how much for a new one?" then you can quote immediately, but you're still going to have to check that he's right and that takes time.

You cannot contact the customer to ask whether you should proceed before knowing exactly (or near as) what must be done to repair the device, and you can't know that without spending time on it. Hence diagnostic fees.

If a customer specifically instructs only for their HD to be replaced then there is no need for any diagnostics to take place, the scope of the work is to simply put a new HD in.
If any extra work was done that was not origionally agreed then the customer is well within their rights not to pay for that work. That is of course dependant on what the T&C's he signed upto state.

If the customer asks for the computer to be fixed then that is when the scope of the work is quite broad and diagnostic tests would need to be done to discover the fault. In this case he is liable for the testing and would have agreed to it when he signed the T&C's.

Only the ops friend will know exactly what instructions were given
 
"Uh, my latop is broken I think it's the hard drive, can you fix it?"

I do not expect it was

"I would like you to replace the hard disk, and only replace the hard disk."
 
He took the laptop to them to be fixed which is when they asked for the drivers cd. He left the laptop with them and was returning with the drivers cd a few days later which is when I told him not to as they were going to charge him £150.00 which is ridiculous considering a HDD is approx £50.00 and doesn't take long at all to replace.

I'll go with him and double check the signed agreement. I was just wondering if they can actually get away with this if they had already implied to him that they were waiting for the cd's before they'd do anything. Would they not need to advise him of the diagnotic charge before hand?

I know what these little computer stores are like over charging people. I worked in one for a short period and the store would charge £30 to scan a photo into a word document, and £70 for a virus scan. The store would get away with it as well because some people don't have a clue, which is wrong.

you're being entirely unreasonable here.

£150 sounds a perfectly reasonable ammount for me when considering the time required to swap the drive, and to re-image the machine.

At the end of the day, its a business, and they have to make money otherwise there would be no point in existing.

Yes you can do it for £50 and some beer tokens, but thats mates rates. Business' cannot charge these.

THe reason he's being charged is simple - he's wasted their time. He's asked the shop to fix something, then turned round and changed his mind and going somewhere else cheaper - ie you.

Just pay up, its the least you can do for wasting their time.

If a customer specifically instructs only for their HD to be replaced then there is no need for any diagnostics to take place, the scope of the work is to simply put a new HD in.
If any extra work was done that was not origionally agreed then the customer is well within their rights not to pay for that work. That is of course dependant on what the T&C's he signed upto state.

If the customer asks for the computer to be fixed then that is when the scope of the work is quite broad and diagnostic tests would need to be done to discover the fault. In this case he is liable for the testing and would have agreed to it when he signed the T&C's.

Only the ops friend will know exactly what instructions were given

Agreed.

If the person in question took it to the shop in the first place rather than doing it himself i'm guessing he's not a techy.

Its therefore entirely likely he came into the shop and made mumblings about it "probably needing a new hard drive" and asking them to "have a look at it"

I very much doubt specific instructions were given to replace the HD and nothing else. For goodness sake replacing a hard drive on a laptop involves removing 5 screws and sliding the thing out and back in again. Lego is more complex.

If he doesnt feel confident enough to do this (which is fine, plenty of people are reluctant to mess around with technology which is why shops of this type exist) then he won't have been confident enough to make a concrete diagnosis himself and given specific instructions.
 
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"Uh, my latop is broken I think it's the hard drive, can you fix it?"

I do not expect it was

"I would like you to replace the hard disk, and only replace the hard disk."

it's obvious which is more likely but you never know

I can fix any part of my bike but I still take it to the bike shop on occasion simply because I'm lazy :p
 
I currently work in a small pc shop doing repairs and stuff as well as selling all the usual kit. I've been working there around 2 1/2 years. We used to do free diagnostics, however you probably would be shocked at the amount of either:

A: people bringing in laptops or pc's where there was no fault
B: People getting stuff diagnosed and then never having the work done.

Its very expensive for that to keep happening. Sure it might take 2 mins to run a diagnostic on a hard drive. However they dont always flag up on a smart failure. Sometimes you might have to run a test for 30 mins before it flags the drive up as failing.

Using the perspective of "I know how to fix it therefore they are overcharging" is pretty stupid. There are a lot of people who do not know how to fix computers. Hell theres a lot of people who barely know how to even work one.

I cant speak for that pc shop, however you also have to factor in the fact that even with a clean install (with driver discs/recovery cd's it speeds it up) they are likely to be copying over data from the failing hard drive and possibly installing various applications available to download off the internet. Then theres things like setting up Outlook express / Windows live mail accounts as well. It's not always a case of swapping the hard drive over and sticking in a windows disc.

As someone stated, if your a mechanic then its going to be pretty cheap to fix it your self, just buy parts in and theres no labour cost. However, a lot of people (your self included?) dont know how to carry out the required work on their car.

Something else to consider is that customers all the time will come in and say "XXX is wrong with my laptop / pc can you fix it" and its not even close to being right. We had this one customer about a year back who comes into the shop with his laptop and asked us to replace his keyboard on his laptop.
We got a price for a replaced and quoted him. He says go ahead. It arrives, we fit and test it. Customer picks it up, still the same problem. It turns out he had his numlock turned on and so some of his letters were typing numbers. He then promptly demanded a full refund because of this. Thats aload of time and effort wasted because the customer didnt now what he was talking about. I would expect most computer repair shops to do diagnostics regardless of whether the customer specifies it, because it saves a lot of hassle in the future.

Most of my friends know im pretty good with computers and will ask me to fix them for them before even going near a repair shop. Now either your not that great with pc's (one of those types that claim they are great with pc's but are not very good, they are normally the people who are "sons in it" or something or you are not very good friends with this person.
 
Of course he didn't expect it to be done for free. Personally though I believe they are over charging him because they think they can get away with it.

It wouldn't even take 5 minutes of their time to run a diagnostic even if they did do what they claim. These are like solicitors charges.

Thanks for your responses guys

and how much do you propose you charge for your time as a business ?

Its not uncommon for private garages to charge £40 / £50 an hour when servicing a car. This isn't diagnostic work ,its part fitting which is no more technical than part fitting on a PC. Its just removing screws and fixing and putting them back where they came from.

Main franchised dealers can easily charge upwards of £100 an hour for their time.

£20 for a diagnostic check to confirm the diagnosis that the HD needs replacing seems reasonable to me.

Its not uncommon for Car Dealers to charge £100 + for a dianostic check.

On that basis £20 seems cheap.

I currently work in a small pc shop doing repairs and stuff as well as selling all the usual kit. I've been working there around 2 1/2 years. We used to do free diagnostics, however you probably would be shocked at the amount of either:

A: people bringing in laptops or pc's where there was no fault
B: People getting stuff diagnosed and then never having the work done.

Its very expensive for that to keep happening. Sure it might take 2 mins to run a diagnostic on a hard drive. However they dont always flag up on a smart failure. Sometimes you might have to run a test for 30 mins before it flags the drive up as failing.

Using the perspective of "I know how to fix it therefore they are overcharging" is pretty stupid. There are a lot of people who do not know how to fix computers. Hell theres a lot of people who barely know how to even work one.

I cant speak for that pc shop, however you also have to factor in the fact that even with a clean install (with driver discs/recovery cd's it speeds it up) they are likely to be copying over data from the failing hard drive and possibly installing various applications available to download off the internet. Then theres things like setting up Outlook express / Windows live mail accounts as well. It's not always a case of swapping the hard drive over and sticking in a windows disc.

As someone stated, if your a mechanic then its going to be pretty cheap to fix it your self, just buy parts in and theres no labour cost. However, a lot of people (your self included?) dont know how to carry out the required work on their car.

Something else to consider is that customers all the time will come in and say "XXX is wrong with my laptop / pc can you fix it" and its not even close to being right. We had this one customer about a year back who comes into the shop with his laptop and asked us to replace his keyboard on his laptop.
We got a price for a replaced and quoted him. He says go ahead. It arrives, we fit and test it. Customer picks it up, still the same problem. It turns out he had his numlock turned on and so some of his letters were typing numbers. He then promptly demanded a full refund because of this. Thats aload of time and effort wasted because the customer didnt now what he was talking about. I would expect most computer repair shops to do diagnostics regardless of whether the customer specifies it, because it saves a lot of hassle in the future.

Most of my friends know im pretty good with computers and will ask me to fix them for them before even going near a repair shop. Now either your not that great with pc's (one of those types that claim they are great with pc's but are not very good, they are normally the people who are "sons in it" or something or you are not very good friends with this person.

This

I've fought till i'm blue in the face with clients about my diagnosis of whats wrong. I had one person who personally complained about me and said i was rude and unhelpful because we had such a massive disagreement. He got aggressive, so i got aggressive back. Had our business been charging on a per transaction basis, rather than on rolling yearly contract i'd doubt he'd had bothered to continue to use us. That customer would have thought our service was shocking and gone elsewhere because we refused to do what he asked us to.

I was right however. First rule of IT support is take everything your customer tells you with a pinch of salt and diagnose it yourself, no matter how adament they are that they're right. Because they will be the first one to bring it back and ask for it to be fixed F.O.C when it doesnt work.
 
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ask for the computer back and then just walk out with it. tell them to send a bill.

Unfortunatly it will probably say on the job sheet that he accepts their charges. Likely it will say something along the lines of "suspect hdd fault" rather than "replace hdd". If thats the case and he just takes the laptop away, if they can be bothered for the £25 they may take him to small claims caught, ending up with him paying a lot more than the diagnostic fee.
 
Unfortunatly it will probably say on the job sheet that he accepts their charges. Likely it will say something along the lines of "suspect hdd fault" rather than "replace hdd". If thats the case and he just takes the laptop away, if they can be bothered for the £25 they may take him to small claims caught, ending up with him paying a lot more than the diagnostic fee.

I don't think it's unfortunate at all. These shops have to make money to keep going.

You don't know for example that the diagnostic fee isn't waived if he gets the repair done there. That's not an uncommon thing to stop people using repair shops (for anything) as a free diagnostic service.
 
Thing about pc shops is that if you work for a big corporation you won't be getting £50 to fix a pc. You would be getting like £20 an hour (if you lucky) and you could fix 20 pcs a day. Plus at a pc shop you can fix multiple pcs at the same time. If you run a diagnostic you do not have to sit there and watch it for 30 mins, you plug it in run the diag and then check it again in 1 hour. During that time you can do other things.

I would ask them to prove that they run diagnostic, they won't be able to. So sorry for wasting 5 mins of their time and walk out.
 
I used to work in a small IT shop as well as others has stated. Sometimes HDD tests can take a long time to determine a fault. You have to do non destructive read/write tests which can takes hours depending on the drive. I've had laptops do diagnostic tests overnight and still weren't complete the following morning. That and most laptop brands skimp on decent HDD's to keep costs low and are dog slow when compared to most modern Desktop HDD's.

Pay them the fee thats asked and lesson learned. Get your friend to bring his laptop to you next time.
 
I used to work in a small IT shop as well as others has stated. Sometimes HDD tests can take a long time to determine a fault. You have to do non destructive read/write tests which can takes hours depending on the drive. I've had laptops do diagnostic tests overnight and still weren't complete the following morning. That and most laptop brands skimp on decent HDD's to keep costs low and are dog slow when compared to most modern Desktop HDD's.

Pay them the fee thats asked and lesson learned. Get your friend to bring his laptop to you next time.

Amen.

/thread.
 
So how much do they charge for a hard drive change including reinstall of windows, drivers, windows updates and basic apps as well as transfering the customers data over and resetting up email accounts etc?

No idea, they don't exactly state that on their website but I do know they don't charge £30 to scan a photo.
 
These small IT shops should create universal several build images for Win7, Vista and XP with driverpacks and basic apps like anti-virus, Adobe reader etc. If I ran a small computer repair business and someone brought me a malware infested laptop, I'd just tell them to bring a USB drive (or keep in stock some USB sticks to sell to them), backup their stuff in front of them to prove it was done and nuke the drive with a build image. I'd have msi packages of various Office versions to deploy easily provided they have a license. Job done in 2 hours including a windows update and most of that time can be spent doing other things since the build needs very little user input.
 
These small IT shops should create universal several build images for Win7, Vista and XP with driverpacks and basic apps like anti-virus, Adobe reader etc. If I ran a small computer repair business and someone brought me a malware infested laptop, I'd just tell them to bring a USB drive (or keep in stock some USB sticks to sell to them), backup their stuff in front of them to prove it was done and nuke the drive with a build image. I'd have msi packages of various Office versions to deploy easily provided they have a license. Job done in 2 hours including a windows update and most of that time can be spent doing other things since the build need very little user input.

and that accounts for all the different manufacturers of laptops with different motherboard chipsets and processors how ??

You'd need tons of images.

Putting a disk image taken off an AMD based fujitsu laptop on a Core 2 Duo Toshiba PC aint going to go so well...
 
and that accounts for all the different manufacturers of laptops with different motherboard chipsets and processors how ??

It's easy if you know what you're doing. Driverpacks take care of most, just the odd 1 or 2 drivers that need downloading

You'd need tons of images.

3 images for 32bit versions, 6 if you wanted to include 64 bit. I would probably only go for 4 (32 and 64bit Win7, 32bit for the other 2)

Putting a disk image taken off an AMD based fujitsu laptop on a Core 2 Duo Toshiba PC aint going to go so well...

You don't "take the image" off a machine, you make the master image in VMWare and use sysprep plus some VB scripts. How do you think large IT corporations deploy their images?
 
Even if you had magic disks that would install on any motherboard and use any OEM key.... you should still charge for your time.
 
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