Condoleezza Rice visits Liverpool, protests ensue

MrSix · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:12

mrk said:
...the more higher up you go in the dslr body class the more processing that's needed at the end of the day...

Right, I've gotta stop pulling the punches now.

How can you justify this statement? Apart from being very poorly articulated, it's utter rubbish...how can a "higher class" DSLR body cause you "more processing" of your images?

*edit*

Just re-read that statement and have to comment further...

Press photographers don't post process their own images because they don't have time to, they get their shots, then wire them straight back to the office - you make it sound like they are too superior to do it themselves and have little mignions to do it for them.

I often wonder if you like to make comments for the sake of getting noticed, because on closer examination, the majority are incorrect or tripe.

MrSix · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:18

stuart38 said:
Its the only shot thats out of sync with the style cykey is achieving - and its a shot thats been been done to death since forever!

Fair comment, it doesn't fit with his wide angle shots, but that's not to say it makes it the weakest in the set?

Just curious, could you post some examples of photographs where this 'shot' has been done before? Im presuming that if it's been done to death there'll be plenty to choose from.

stuart38 · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:20

http://images.google.co.uk/images?svnum=10&hl=en&q=protester+megaphone&spell=1

cyKey · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:21

MrSix said:
I said you've used it frequently, which you've said - twice in 3 days. You've also only posted up your photos on the two occasions that you've used it, not when you havn't.

Dude, chill. In the past 3 days I've been out twice and used this lens. Its one of my favourite lenses so why wouldn't I?

You mention you weren't the only one using a wide angle lens as though i'm cricising you for doing so, which isn't my aim, I was suggesting that it would be good to get some variation - which admittedly you have done in a few of the shots, one of which is the one of the girl on the megaphone which stands out from the rest in my opinion.

Its a normal shot. I'm sure everyone got one. In fact looking at Getty's their photographer did get similar shots to mine. Not the HDR style, the normal person standing out in a crowd shot. You have to set yourself apart from everyone else in order to succeed. "Think different."

If you wish to forge your own distinguishable style, why not learn to master the technical side of photography, learning how to effectively use flash or natural light and capturing your images in a way that sets you apart from the rest of the people who can take a mediocre shot, then post process it to hell and call it a 'good' photograph?

You know, I could have sworn that I was trying to do just that. :confused:

If you read the first post you will see that from the outset I tried to use the natural light and my flash to achieve the look and feel I wanted. However they were flat images. Looking at the papers and Getty shows exactly the same thing. All the pro's had the same issue. So I experimented with HDR to get something that would set me apart from everyone else.

MrSix said:
I often wonder if you like to make comments for the sake of getting noticed, because on closer examination, the majority are incorrect or tripe.

Lets not make this personal.

Deleted member 11679 · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:41

I'm finding it harder and harder the more I get into Photography to be really impressed by photo's...but these have blown me away. I feel they have captured the power behind these protests so well and I absolutely love every shot...I honestly was sat there glued to my screen picking out new parts to each picture I liked.

A favourite? I don't think I have one, I do think the earlier ones are very Sin Cit esque.

cyKey · 2 Apr 2006 at 23:52

TomWilko said:
I'm finding it harder and harder the more I get into Photography to be really impressed by photo's...but these have blown me away. I feel they have captured the power behind these protests so well and I absolutely love every shot...I honestly was sat there glued to my screen picking out new parts to each picture I liked.

A favourite? I don't think I have one, I do think the earlier ones are very Sin Cit esque.

Cheers mate, very much appreciated

freebooter · 3 Apr 2006 at 00:18

Too many techniques, too heavily applied and too often for my taste.

Almost every shot is tilted and processed to an almost bw with patches of colour and wide angle. Used occasionally and moderately they can work but not when all applied to every shot.

It looks like you have discovered a few new techniques and are experimenting by trying them all at once. Obviously experimenting is good but I think you need to dial them all back a bit and be more selective.

just my opinion of course YMMV

mrk · 3 Apr 2006 at 00:27

Naa six old boy it's just you who makes yourself sound superior the past few weeks/months ;/

But what do I know! tech support clients have me up in arms enough as it is with what's right/wrong so maybe I'm not thinking right, either way I don't wish to debate further.

cyKey · 3 Apr 2006 at 00:31

freebooter said:
Too many techniques, too heavily applied and too often for my taste.

Almost every shot is tilted and processed to an almost bw with patches of colour and wide angle. Used occasionally and moderately they can work but not when all applied to every shot.

It looks like you have discovered a few new techniques and are experimenting by trying them all at once. Obviously experimenting is good but I think you need to dial them all back a bit and be more selective.

just my opinion of course YMMV

I often do tilted shots though. Only 5 of the 11 there are tilted. :confused:

Its also rather hard to try and compose a shot when you're holding the camera over the heads of protestors, or hanging over the bars. The only new technique is the HDR style. I didn't apply it to all the shots as I knew it didn't work. As for the bw with patches of colour thats also another style I do in gig photography. Its funny because i've posted gig shots before and they're far more samey than these. Same room, same band, tilted angles, desaturated colours etc. People haven't complained about them half as much as these. :confused:

The only new thing here really is the HDR bit. Thats 1 small step in the processing.

Johnny|lucidcomposure · 3 Apr 2006 at 04:17

I agree. I have noticed a lot of personal styles of the various users on this forum. Cykeys is most recognizable. Its the www.petecarr.net I think

(just messing) I notice a style in not only the processing but the choice of angles in composition.

Lostkat · 3 Apr 2006 at 06:57

Well Pete, I for one really think you've managed to capture the emotion and drama in these shots. A really great set of photos. I must admit, and I'm not a fan of too much processing, but I think it suits this set. I also think the composition is pretty much bang on for most of these.

MrSix · 3 Apr 2006 at 07:58

cyKey said:
Dude, chill. In the past 3 days I've been out twice and used this lens. Its one of my favourite lenses so why wouldn't I?

Its a normal shot. I'm sure everyone got one. In fact looking at Getty's their photographer did get similar shots to mine. Not the HDR style, the normal person standing out in a crowd shot. You have to set yourself apart from everyone else in order to succeed. "Think different."

You know, I could have sworn that I was trying to do just that. If you read the first post you will see that from the outset I tried to use the natural light and my flash to achieve the look and feel I wanted. However they were flat images. Looking at the papers and Getty shows exactly the same thing. All the pro's had the same issue. So I experimented with HDR to get something that would set me apart from everyone else.

Lets not make this personal.

Okay, so obviously you don't want to take on board the constructive criticism that people have to offer, which is fine I suppose, free world and all that.
However, i'd say that should you decide get off the defensive foot and start looking in to what people have suggested on here then maybe...just maybe...you might learn something new to improve your style.

Also, if you're getting flat images from using your flash, you've not learned how to use it propperly - you've got a few shots here where you could have done with dialling down the FEC settings in order to get a more balanced shot.
So there's something straight away that you can think about.

morgan · 3 Apr 2006 at 08:59

cykey...well you've done what I was hoping someone would do on here which is post some shots that get people hyped up about. Nice one.

my 2p's worth....powerful images dont need to much post processing...they speak for themselves. You have powerful images here but they are hidden behind a possibly needless layer of post processing.

however you look at his syle its got people fired up..thats what its all about. its good to rattle some cages every now and again

Mohain · 3 Apr 2006 at 10:24

Great stuff Cykey. I must say this is much better than anything I could ever hope to produce given the those shooting conditions. I think you've done a great job and they defiantly stand out from your average 'reportage' type shot. OK, so one or two might be considered a bit too 'arty' to appear in the tabloids but they certainly portray a dramatic feeling, which was your aim. These all have your distinctive style. Good job.

cyKey · 3 Apr 2006 at 11:39

MrSix said:
Okay, so obviously you don't want to take on board the constructive criticism that people have to offer, which is fine I suppose, free world and all that.
However, i'd say that should you decide get off the defensive foot and start looking in to what people have suggested on here then maybe...just maybe...you might learn something new to improve your style.

Also, if you're getting flat images from using your flash, you've not learned how to use it propperly - you've got a few shots here where you could have done with dialling down the FEC settings in order to get a more balanced shot.
So there's something straight away that you can think about.

No I do want to learn and improve my shots. Its thanks to the people on OcUK that I've come this far. I just feel that you've singled me out for some reason. Using HDR twice in 3 days is a crime? Otheres here use IR every chance they get, or even HDR too. Why? Because its new. Its exciting, its different, its fun. I liked the style from my shots on Friday so I wondered if I could take that style and apply it to something else. You will see that the car shots are different too.

95% of people have enjoyed these shots so I guess the style worked. I am going to continue to practice with it. I do feel that there is a more balanced level of HDR that can be achieved that won't look too processed. I've only used it twice so I need to keep practicing.

I was able to achieve the style I wanted with the flash and setting the aperature but I preferred the style of the HDR shots to add that something extra to my work. Something to make mine stand out more than the next persons.

morgan said:
cykey...well you've done what I was hoping someone would do on here which is post some shots that get people hyped up about. Nice one.

my 2p's worth....powerful images dont need to much post processing...they speak for themselves. You have powerful images here but they are hidden behind a possibly needless layer of post processing.

however you look at his syle its got people fired up..thats what its all about. its good to rattle some cages every now and again

I know what you mean. Its good to post something like this now and again, but of course it doesn't exactly happen every week so we are forced to stick with our landscapes and buildings. It is possible that the HDR was taken too far, I've only used it twice

I look at them and I like them so I'm happy. I always like to produce slightly different shots to the expected ones.

The idea for this style was inspired by a guy I met recently. Colin McPherson. He's been doing this project for 10 years now, capturing the decline of salmon fishermen in Scotland. His images are amazing. Vivid skies and the people stand out from them. Like in this photo or this one. I wonder if I was shooting film and this was 20 years ago, would people be saying the same thing? I've got a long way to go before I can use HDR to achieve results like his.

Thanks to all the comments, positive and negative

Its good that people are noticing a style. I've always wanted to have a style that was my own. You look at mrk's shots and you know they're his. You look at Hoodmiester's IR shots and you know they're his. I've always felt too random to settle into a style but I guess if people can see it then cool

I will continue to play with HDR. Yes it is a new shiny toy, but it needs to be toyed with to get the best from it. Looks like I'm getting up early for some of these shots I plan to do. Yey ¬_¬

Psilonaught · 3 Apr 2006 at 13:32

MrSix said:
I'm not sure what to make of these really.

I understand that HDR is a new novelty for you at the moment, much like your 10mm lens - but sometimes I wonder if it's appropriate to use them so frequently for every photographic opportunity that arises (for example, recently you've used the same equipment and processing techniques for both your car and this anti-war rally).

The photographs do what you say, conveying drama with the moody skies, however they also look very "same old, same old" with the post processing techniques.

I suppose my views are provoked by spending a lot of time recently looking at the work of Larry Burrows and seeing him capture drama and emotion in a true journalistic style, using fast black and white and colour film.

You may argue that this isn't vietnam and the subject isn't nearly as intense, but the basic principles still stand...sometimes it's better to keep it simple if you wish to convey the strongest message.

I think that's a bit harsh there fella! I do agree that one or two of these have an air over over processing, but the composition and thought that has gone into these have really really impressed me. Also, what the hell is wrong with using a 10mm lens?!

We are all guilty of finding a new style/process in creative photography and possibly overusing it - hell i'm as guilty of that as anyone here.

Bottom line is some of these images are pro and could easily adorn a newspaper / magazine, and i love them.

MrSix · 3 Apr 2006 at 13:49

No, not harsh, just to the point - I've made the decision that this forum needs more members that give honest constructive criticism, instead of the sort that simply say "cool shots" or "I love these!".

I've been spending more time on other forums, many which are frequented by professionals that produce work that blow me away. That's why I like to be subjective with my comments and not just ass kiss all the time - obviously sometimes it is needed, and trust me, i'll be at the front of the queue puckering up!

And there's nothing wrong with using a 10mm lens, i'm actually in the process of aquiring a 15mm fisheye, so expect plenty of distorted shots from me.

And please, feel free to be just as subjective as me, it's the only way we can learn and progress - because practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Finally, I apologise if i've come across as harsh or out of order, it wasn't my intention, simply to rock the boat a little and make people think

Sorry, this is the final one...CyKey, i'm not singling you out mate, but there's no point in me talking about anybody else in a thread dedicated to your photos is there?

divine` · 3 Apr 2006 at 13:53

MrSix said:
I've made the decision that this forum needs more members that give honest constructive criticism

Finally, I apologise if i've come across as harsh or out of order, it wasn't my intention, simply to rock the boat a little and make people think

There is a fine line between honest contructive critiscm and coming across as harsh and having a go.

I think what has got a few people riled is that you are stepping very close to that line.

cyKey · 3 Apr 2006 at 14:05

MrSix said:
No, not harsh, just to the point - I've made the decision that this forum needs more members that give honest constructive criticism, instead of the sort that simply say "cool shots" or "I love these!".

I fully appreciate that as I do a similar thing. But it really didn't feel like constructive criticism and thats why I was defensive. Whenever I try and post constructive criticism I like to point out the good points. People often get defensive if you jump all over their work, especially if they rather like it. Haha how odd at providing constructive criticism on constructive criticism

Sorry, this is the final one...CyKey, i'm not singling you out mate, but there's no point in me talking about anybody else in a thread dedicated to your photos is there?

Well no but thats not what I meant. I meant that I hadn't seen you doing the same in other threads

Thats why I felt a little persecuted because there are plenty of others who use certain techniques and I just felt like you were having a go at me and my new toys

stuart38 · 3 Apr 2006 at 14:10

MrSix said:
No, not harsh, just to the point - I've made the decision that this forum needs more members that give honest constructive criticism, instead of the sort that simply say "cool shots" or "I love these!".

I've been spending more time on other forums, many which are frequented by professionals that produce work that blow me away. That's why I like to be subjective with my comments and not just ass kiss all the time - obviously sometimes it is needed, and trust me, i'll be at the front of the queue puckering up!

And there's nothing wrong with using a 10mm lens, i'm actually in the process of aquiring a 15mm fisheye, so expect plenty of distorted shots from me.

And please, feel free to be just as subjective as me, it's the only way we can learn and progress - because practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect.

Finally, I apologise if i've come across as harsh or out of order, it wasn't my intention, simply to rock the boat a little and make people think

Sorry, this is the final one...CyKey, i'm not singling you out mate, but there's no point in me talking about anybody else in a thread dedicated to your photos is there?

I dont think anyone here would disagree with you that criticism and peer review is a good thing, otherwise non of us would be here. However I get the impression that the debate here has only been fueled by an opinionated view that has been shouted rather than discussed. Assuming that you are right is your perrogative, but I think youve put your argument over in an offensive and uncalled for manner.

This forum seems to do fine as it is.. its approachable for people new to the world of photography like me and yet also attracts more serious bods whose opinions and critique are generally valued.

It might be worth you re-reading your posts with the same critical eye you used on cykeys pictures.

Condoleezza Rice visits Liverpool, protests ensue

Deleted member 11679

Deleted member 11679