Consistent BSOD in "Control" - 5900X/3090

[EsaT]

a house fuse box has multiple RCD which protects each circuit - this is the same analogy as PSU's seeprate 12V rails etc. these circuit RCD ensures each circuit is protected against overload/spikes
a house fuse box has a high duty RCD sit above all the circuit RCD - this is the same analogy as the PSU's protection circuit at the power input. this ensures the whole house/pc is protected against power spike etc.

what you saying is that there is no split of loads within the fuse box which is wrong. there should be and there is in the current PSU designs.

if you do not split the 12V lines, then it is will have pretty nasty outcome. in old days, GPUs dont drawing current from the secondary PCIe link that's why it is daisy chained off the end of a single PCIe cable. not so these days. so if you only have a single protection circuit for a single 12V line, then you are pretty much screwed if one component spikes, it will knock out and damage everything else on that line also.

have a read of article below.

First of all you don't have a clue what RCD is.
Let me give hint: It's not fuse!

Spoiler

Only thing it measures is current difference between outgoing current in live wire and returning current in neutral.
For as long as all current drawn by the load has its circuit closed through neutral (summing to zero) it couldn't give a damn if you exceeded current limit of wiring by 200%.
It only reacts to current leaking somewhere else and not returning back through neutral.

And now you're claiming you have as many power lines coming into your house as fuses...

Number of fuses has zero effect to regulation of voltage in power line coming into your house, if you start pushing load towards its capacity.
Because when power source is starting to get stressed, voltage starts sagging in every place powered by that source.
Just like some very power hungry machinery starting can cause lights dim momentarily in whole neighbourhood, because that local transformer is getting stressed.
Only thing fuses (not RCDs) can do is limiting maximum current on wires attached to that fuse.
And neither protects against incoming voltage spikes from that source of power.
(that's job for different devices)


Neither has daisy chaining any effect to voltage regulation in source, which sees only total load of all wires connected to it.
What daisy chaining affects is transfer losses by increasing current (and resistive loss) over separate cables, causing voltage to drop more in between start of wire and end of it.
Meaning that 240VAC or 12VDC isn't any more exactly that in the load end.
Similarly current's return path has increased voltage loss on it and 0V seen by the load starts floating higher from that actual 0V.
That's what causes problems with components expecting smooth 12V input. (and proper 0V ground)

Current limited wire groups aka BS multi rails only adds potential extra problem source to that.
Because daisy chained or not, if draw from wires exceeds current limit you lose power.
With the difference that unlike in house with only outlets connected to that particular current limiting device losing power, in PC whole PSU shuts down.
And with some RTX 3080 pulling 500W/40+A transients, it would need its power to come from two different current limited wire groups to avoid that risk.
While in PSU without that marketing BS it doesn't matter how PCIe power cables are connected in PSU's end.

Some 1kW PSU capable to pushing toward 100A current possibly not noticing some shorted component is different thing.
And can only damage that already shorting part by keeping frying it and possibly melting cable leading to it.
(components in other cables see inside specs voltage, unless PSU lacks under/overvoltage protections)

And why would I read again something with all original errors there?

 

[pc-guy]

First of all you don't have a clue what RCD is.
Let me give hint: It's not fuse!

Spoiler

Only thing it measures is current difference between outgoing current in live wire and returning current in neutral.
For as long as all current drawn by the load has its circuit closed through neutral (summing to zero) it couldn't give a damn if you exceeded current limit of wiring by 200%.
It only reacts to current leaking somewhere else and not returning back through neutral.

And now you're claiming you have as many power lines coming into your house as fuses...

Number of fuses has zero effect to regulation of voltage in power line coming into your house, if you start pushing load towards its capacity.
Because when power source is starting to get stressed, voltage starts sagging in every place powered by that source.
Just like some very power hungry machinery starting can cause lights dim momentarily in whole neighbourhood, because that local transformer is getting stressed.
Only thing fuses (not RCDs) can do is limiting maximum current on wires attached to that fuse.
And neither protects against incoming voltage spikes from that source of power.
(that's job for different devices)


Neither has daisy chaining any effect to voltage regulation in source, which sees only total load of all wires connected to it.
What daisy chaining affects is transfer losses by increasing current (and resistive loss) over separate cables, causing voltage to drop more in between start of wire and end of it.
Meaning that 240VAC or 12VDC isn't any more exactly that in the load end.
Similarly current's return path has increased voltage loss on it and 0V seen by the load starts floating higher from that actual 0V.
That's what causes problems with components expecting smooth 12V input. (and proper 0V ground)

Current limited wire groups aka BS multi rails only adds potential extra problem source to that.
Because daisy chained or not, if draw from wires exceeds current limit you lose power.
With the difference that unlike in house with only outlets connected to that particular current limiting device losing power, in PC whole PSU shuts down.
And with some RTX 3080 pulling 500W/40+A transients, it would need its power to come from two different current limited wire groups to avoid that risk.
While in PSU without that marketing BS it doesn't matter how PCIe power cables are connected in PSU's end.

Some 1kW PSU capable to pushing toward 100A current possibly not noticing some shorted component is different thing.
And can only damage that already shorting part by keeping frying it and possibly melting cable leading to it.
(components in other cables see inside specs voltage, unless PSU lacks under/overvoltage protections)

And why would I read again something with all original errors there?

I am not sure you have any idea what you are going on about!


I didn’t want to get into the details of a modern fuse box and used it as analogue as you didn’t have a clue about it in the first place. In Britain our fuse box consists of a number of circuit breakers (fuses) for each circuitry such as kitchen appliances; wall socket rings etc etc and then a number of RCDs to protect the humans.

https://www.screwfix.com/p/british-...afDROgGLsEasBOMBLWBoCTB4QAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

you guys might do things differently in Finland where everything is wired to a single fuse at the box. That is not how we do it in Britain. It is better for protection of circuit.

the same is done in PSUs. If you think that article is wrong then that’s your opinion. If you got better source to quote feel free.

 

[EsaT]

I am not sure you have any idea what you are going on about!


I didn’t want to get into the details of a modern fuse box and used it as analogue as you didn’t have a clue about it in the first place.

It's you whose only clue seems to be following what ever drops from rear hole of marketing.

While outdated in many details/design choises, this is how much there's multiple 12V power sources in PSU:
https://www.smpspowersupply.com/600W_power_supply.jpg
There's only single 12V transformer/rectifying/filtering circuitry!
Just like power company brings only one power line into your house.
If you disagree, why don't you go ask your power company, if they have as many power lines coming to your house as you have fuses in box?


And only reason for this whole marketing BS is that Intel's ATX specification designers referenced existing general standards...
One of which happened to define power supplies of certain type (UL Level 3) being allowed 240VA as maximum output from any single wire/group of wires.
Obviously that 20A limit didn't go well with need for far higher 12V output capacity.
So designers decided to split output wires into more than one separate current limited wire groups, with that 240VA limit calculated separately for each.

But marketing didn't want to tell the truth that user couldn't connect power drawing devices freely to what ever cable even if connectors fit.
So they spewed out this BS about multiple rails.
Also conveniently fooling many people into thinking that PSU could provide more 12V current than actually available.
Because of people not understanding, that they couldn't sum current values of "separate fuses" any more than they could load every wall outlet of the house to max without main power going out.


And standards actually cover devices without that particular 240VA limit.
It's called as UL Level 6.
Many PSUs from 10 years ago actually had that specified in sticker.
And with most of big name PSUs (like Corsairs) following that since dozen+ years ago, we can conclude that lack of 240VA limit isn't much any safety risk:
How many times have you heard of quality PSUs starting some fire?