Contract/Law help?

[Peerzy]

Serious thread/help needed please.

I'm having a little issue with work at the moment.

Basically I'm a student so work part time for a large american company. I've always worked Wednesday 6 till 8 in the evening and Saturday 9 till 6. About a year ago I was promoted to part time supervisor still doing the same hours and extras when I could around my studies.

They started 'forcing' me to work hours I didn't want to. Moving my 9-6 on a Saturday to 10-7, and a few other things. They cite "needs of the business" as part of my contract meaning they can pretty much do anything.

I'm starting a full time placement year job as part of my Uni course in 2 weeks time so gave a letter in the other day with 4 weeks notice to demote myself back to being a normal employee and I would continue my current hours (the full time job is only Mon-Fri 9-5 so I could still do all my hours with the part time company).

The head manager spoke to me the day after I gave my letter in and said because he was going to have to hire or promote someone to do my job for the hours I work he could not confirm if I would be allowed to work my normal hours and they may have to be changed. I cannot work any other days and could not really change my hours.

He cited "Needs of the business", I've checked my handbook and this is the paragraph:

"Your work schedules, are shown on store notice boards, and all staff must be ready for work at their allotted place of dity at their designated start time. Your normal working hours are outlined in your principle statement of terms and conditions, however the company may change your normal working days and/or hours to suit the requirements of the business. When implementing such changes the company will endeavour to consult you and consider any relevant personal circumstances."

They to accept my letter and allow me to demote myself, however can they 'force me' to completly change my contracted hours. The contract I have signed clearly has my hours written on it but does refer to the handbook.

I'd rather not leave the job as I enjoy it and it will be very helpful when I go back to uni for my final year as a part time job again. I've worked there 4 years and have never been in serious trouble.

I asked another manager and made the point that although I understand someone will have to be promoted or hired to do my extended duties it's not my problem and I shouldn't have to be concerned by it. She said that it's not the companies fault I'm demoting myself and they are unlikley to have the hours/funds to pay me and my replacement for the same hours.

Any ideas/thoughts?

 

[Sudden]

The wording of it would suggest to me that no, you have no choice in the matter. They will try and accommodate you but make no promises. But i'm no expert on the matter.

Not sure what to do about it though since I haven't been in the same position myself.

 

[Mahnsikir]

The wording of it would suggest to me that no, you have no choice in the matter. They will try and accommodate you but make no promises. But i'm no expert on the matter.

Not sure what to do about it though since I haven't been in the same position myself.

Yeah I agree and no expert, hopfully they look upon your situation/history with them favourably though.

 

[Peerzy]

The wording of it would suggest to me that no, you have no choice in the matter. They will try and accommodate you but make no promises. But i'm no expert on the matter.

Not sure what to do about it though since I haven't been in the same position myself.

Yeah I agree and no expert, hopfully they look upon your situation/history with them favourably though.

Unlikely, the company in question is known for being being harsh. The managers are fine and nice people but pressure from above will force them to cut me someway or another. They skip around so many issues, the 6-8 shift is never a 6-8 shift, but a 6-8.30 shift as they under hire, and won't let you leave until all the jobs are done, the extra half hour isn't paid and over 4 years I'm sure thats added up to a fair bit.

Seems very strange for me to have to sign a contract with specific hours listed, yet at any point they can turn and screw me over. The only thing the manager did say was that they would have to offer me the same number of hours if they did need changing. I can possibly change my Wednesday evening to Monday or Tuesday but the Saturday 9-6 has to stay (one of the reasons for demotion was them forcing me to work 10-7 so that I closed the shop).

 

[Mahnsikir]

As I said im no expert, but as I see it the problem comes with your promotion and that doing this probably would have nulified your original contract, and while (as you said) the company allowed you to demote yourself, it cant be expected that the company needs someone to fill these limited hours sadly as the circumstances have changed since your original hiring and contract.

As you said ' She said that it's not the companies fault I'm demoting myself and they are unlikley to have the hours/funds to pay me and my replacement for the same hours.'

Not to say you've done anything wrong here (I'd have done the same thing in your position) but if you'd wanted to perminently secure your hours you would have had to decline the promotion in the first place

 

[Peerzy]

Not to say you've done anything wrong here (I'd have done the same thing in your position) but if you'd wanted to perminently secure your hours you would have had to decline the promotion in the first place

Even then I'm not securing anything, a normal member of staff quit about a year ago after they told her that her 9-3 Mon-Fri needed to be moved to 12-6 everyday. She couldn't work those hours, they started disaplinary action and she resigned.

They have a full time Supervisor who's on shift work (different hours every week) so there is nothing stopping them from making he work a late on the Wednesday (11 till 8 instead of a standard 9-6 or day off for her) and the reason why I was forced to do a later shift on the Saturday is that she won't work every Saturday. They are staff heavy on a Sunday anyway and it would make things very hard for them if they didn't let me work Saturday.

I just feel like I'm in a no-win situation and no matter what happens, I'm going to end up getting touched inappropriately.

 

[JBuk]

the company may change your normal working days and/or hours to suit the requirements of the business

Seems pretty clear that they can change your hours to suit their needs

If you feel you're treated unfairly compared to other staff or forced to work those hours for no reason other than your boss being a **** to you then complain?

 

[Sash]

Is the full time placement paid work? If so, you would probably be too tired to do the part time job effectively anyway. Constant working for the body isnt good.

Unless it said in your contract your hours will be fixed then the "Needs of the business" paragraph has you goosed. Consider leaving because they wont back down and can easily get someone else.

 

[Peerzy]

Seems pretty clear that they can change your hours to suit their needs

If you feel you're treated unfairly compared to other staff or forced to work those hours for no reason other than your boss being a **** to you then complain?

It's not my boss being anything, more he's given a set hours budget per week and they already go over. He needs to cut hours somehow so wouldn't be able to pay me and hire someone else to my job.

No one to really complain to, Head Office will take the same stance.

Is the full time placement paid work? If so, you would probably be too tired to do the part time job effectively anyway. Constant working for the body isnt good.

Unless it said in your contract your hours will be fixed then the "Needs of the business" paragraph has you goosed. Consider leaving because they wont back down and can easily get someone else.

It is paid work, but it's Mon-Fri 8.30-4.30, I'm use to working long hours and enjoy my part time job so shouldn't be an issue.

Just looked at my latest contract and funny to notice the printer has messed up and you can't even read the hours or my details on it!

There is no way they can hire someone and train them to do my job in 4 weeks, and my last week I'm on Holiday so it's only really 3 weeks. I'm just going to go about my job as normal, keep my head down and simply hope they force one of the other Supervisors to do the job as part of their shift contract, thus meaning no more hours paid out. Knowing my work if I don't remind them or mention anything they'll forget and it'll come to my first 6-8 Wednesday shift as a normal employee and they won't have anyone in and I'll have to do the close anyway!

 

[sixty]

Sound like a hell of a company to work for... :/

Personally I'd be inclined to tell them where to go and resign, but then personal circumstance dictates whether that course of action can be applied.

 

[Peerzy]

Sound like a hell of a company to work for... :/

Personally I'd be inclined to tell them where to go and resign, but then personal circumstance dictates whether that course of action can be applied.

The company isn't very nice to work for, the people in the company are brilliant. I get on really well with the managers, really nice people and the staff are good as well. It's just the company forces their hands.

 

[Sash]

It's not my boss being anything, more he's given a set hours budget per week and they already go over. He needs to cut hours somehow so wouldn't be able to pay me and hire someone else to my job.

No one to really complain to, Head Office will take the same stance.



It is paid work, but it's Mon-Fri 8.30-4.30, I'm use to working long hours and enjoy my part time job so shouldn't be an issue.

Just looked at my latest contract and funny to notice the printer has messed up and you can't even read the hours or my details on it!

There is no way they can hire someone and train them to do my job in 4 weeks, and my last week I'm on Holiday so it's only really 3 weeks. I'm just going to go about my job as normal, keep my head down and simply hope they force one of the other Supervisors to do the job as part of their shift contract, thus meaning no more hours paid out. Knowing my work if I don't remind them or mention anything they'll forget and it'll come to my first 6-8 Wednesday shift as a normal employee and they won't have anyone in and I'll have to do the close anyway!

Well if the you cant read what you are agreeing to and dont have a replacement it should be void

 

[rodo]

It's not my boss being anything, more he's given a set hours budget per week and they already go over. He needs to cut hours somehow so wouldn't be able to pay me and hire someone else to my job.

No one to really complain to, Head Office will take the same stance.



It is paid work, but it's Mon-Fri 8.30-4.30, I'm use to working long hours and enjoy my part time job so shouldn't be an issue.

Just looked at my latest contract and funny to notice the printer has messed up and you can't even read the hours or my details on it!

There is no way they can hire someone and train them to do my job in 4 weeks, and my last week I'm on Holiday so it's only really 3 weeks. I'm just going to go about my job as normal, keep my head down and simply hope they force one of the other Supervisors to do the job as part of their shift contract, thus meaning no more hours paid out. Knowing my work if I don't remind them or mention anything they'll forget and it'll come to my first 6-8 Wednesday shift as a normal employee and they won't have anyone in and I'll have to do the close anyway!

Is the company you are working for aware you want to have 2 jobs and vice versa? I work for a large american firm and working for another company at the same time is a big no no - can actually get dismissed if I weren't to tell them.

 

[Peerzy]

Is the company you are working for aware you want to have 2 jobs and vice versa? I work for a large american firm and working for another company at the same time is a big no no - can actually get dismissed if I weren't to tell them.

They are aware and have been for about a year. I've always been clear with them that I would be getting a job for a year and was willing to continue being a Supervisor but they've started taking the **** and eating into the very little time I'll have with my GF. They are also aware that once I've finished Uni (May 2011) I'll be leaving to get a perminant job. I've worked there since I had just turned 16 and started my first year of College (October 2005).

Well if the you cant read what you are agreeing to and dont have a replacement it should be void

There is no ink on the paper at all for the bit where my hours and details should be. The writing is imprinted with a few tiny dots (they use decade old printers) so if you hold it up to the light and squint you can just about make it out one word at a time. Looking at it in any sort of poor light or more than a few inches away makes it look like the paper is blank.

The contract details are clear as they are pre-printed at Head Office and my signature and a managers signature are obviously clear.

 

[Peerzy]

Having thought about everything a bit more I've remembered something. The company has about 10 people on 'blank key time' contracts. These contracts have 0 hours attached and they just work when they are needed or someone needs cover.

2 of these staff work in my section on a Saturday between 9 and 6. They've only been with us for about 6-8months and I can do every job they can plus more. Another one of these 'key time' staff also does 6 till 8 on Wednesday working in my section.

They are not contracted at all to these hours, surely I could make a claim that they DO need me for my contracted hours doing my normal non-Supervisor role because they are having to let these staff work? Surely they should be told they cannot work the shifts and I should be allowed to. I'm more qualified, been with the company longer and actually have a contract to work these hours.

They could easily pay me my hours and hire my replacement by simply telling one of these members of staff they don't have any hours for them at the moment.

Am I on to something?

 

[rodo]

I'm amazed you could do 2 jobs. I do 5 days of 8-5 and it knackers me out. Maybe it's just the deadlines and type of work lol.

 

[Peerzy]

I'm amazed you could do 2 jobs. I do 5 days of 8-5 and it knackers me out. Maybe it's just the deadlines and type of work lol.

My full time job is part of my Uni course. Meaning it will involve a lot of training and learning instead of 'hard working'. The job won't involve taking anything home with me, once it hits 4.30 I clock off and don't have to worry about it till the next day. Should be pretty stress free. The part time job is reasonably enjoyable. Most of my mates and GF work Saturday anyway so all I'd do would be sleep in till 3PM and then wake up and wait around for them to all finish at 6PM. Might as well work.

The second job is only going to be 10 hours a week, the first job 35 hours after you take away lunch so 45 hours isn't really that much. I'll be able to live on the part time job wage (paid weekly) and the full time job's money will go towards the "Insane car fund".

Another reason with demoting myself to a normal employee is that I can get cover pretty much whenever I want through these Key Time staff. As a Supervisor I had to get another Supervisor to cover me, with there only being 3 others (2 who are full time so can't do it anyway) it left me with one person to get to cover me and she never did so I was stuck.

Anyone think I've got a case with my above post about claiming they do need me as they are using these other staff?

 

[Nitefly]

Try Johnstone v. Bloomsbury Health Authority

http://oxcheps.new.ox.ac.uk/new/cas...0/Johnstone v Bloomsbury Health Authority.doc

Good luck with that mind... it's a very vaguely related case!

 

[Peerzy]

Try Johnstone v. Bloomsbury Health Authority

http://oxcheps.new.ox.ac.uk/new/cas...0/Johnstone v Bloomsbury Health Authority.doc

Good luck with that mind... it's a very vaguely related case!

That was an interesting read but doubt it's anything I could really use. They've not mentioned anything more to me and only the head manager is dealing with it as far as I can tell. Brilliant news because I think as of Tuesday he's on holiday for nearly 2 weeks, and In 2 weeks I'm on holiday. My next shift is Wednesday meaning I don't think I'll see him between now and me starting back as a normal employee. I really doubt he'll hand it over to another manager and tbh the organization skills in that place are terrible.

I'm not gonna mention it and I recon it'll all just blow under the carpet and they'll forget all about it