convicted drug cheats returning to the Olympics

Icm76

Icm76

Icm76

Associate
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Posts
700
Should the drug cheats be allowed to do their time and come back? There are legal issues regarding restriction of trade, so lifetime bans would be near impossible to enforce, but the current bans are surely far too short. I think the rational and liberal answer is that all criminals deserve a second chance after serving their sentence, so drug cheats should certainly not be treated more harshly than criminals. Yet I find myself constantly irritated and disgusted that so many of them are either competing or even getting air time on interviews.

I saw Marion Jones on Piers Morgan (CNN) and Dwain Chambers on BBC, I just think **** off, don't even put them in front of the cameras, they're worthless as athletes and pundits.

I like cycling, but it's constantly being damaged by the drug cheats. A convicted cheat (Vinokourov) won gold in the road race, and yesterday another cheat (Grégory Baugé) picked up silver in the sprint. They don't deserve it, and the road especially feels extremely devalued by the result.
 
Last edited:
Icm76 said:
you can't deny someone a right to their livelihood
Click to expand...

Surely they can still go out and get a job? Anyway, a lifetime ban from the Olympics isn't denying their right to their livelihood, just denying them a chance to win the greatest honour they can in their sport - A right I believe people give up when they cheat.
 
Vonhelmet said:
I'd like a bit more detail on whether or not you can refuse someone entry to a sporting competition based on poor sportsmanship in the past.
Click to expand...

I'm trying to find more info, but the IOC and BOA both lost test cases heard in the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

IOC preferred rule: anyone banned 6 months or more must miss the next games
BOA preferred rule: lifetime ban

Both being considered draconian, invalid and unenforceable. Both the IOC and BOA have to comply with the World Anti-Doping Code (WADA) which is considered very weak by many people. A lot of drug bans have been effectively reduced from a minimum of four years to a maximum of two years, hence all these convicted athletes now taking part in 2012.

I'm not aware of any challenges under EU human rights law, I don't think it has gone beyond the CAS ruling and WADA but I believe that if the CAS had upheld the lifetime ban an athlete would probably ultimately win a test case using human rights law (if only in the EU.)

CasKirensys said:
Surely they can still go out and get a job? Anyway, a lifetime ban from the Olympics isn't denying their right to their livelihood, just denying them a chance to win the greatest honour they can in their sport - A right I believe people give up when they cheat.
Click to expand...

It's not that simple, individuals are entitled to earn the best living they can and are entitled to justice in the workplace. An automatic lifetime ban cannot be considered justice.
 
Last edited:
If we take cycling and track athletics as the examples, the cynics point of view would be that it's silly to ban people like Chambers and Bauge when really the only difference between them and the majority of the others is that they were caught.
 
Icm76 said:
Should the drug cheats be allowed to do their time and come back? There are legal issues regarding restriction of trade, so lifetime bans would be near impossible to enforce, but the current bans are surely far too short. I think the rational and liberal answer is that all criminals deserve a second chance after serving their sentence, so drug cheats should certainly not be treated more harshly than criminals. Yet I find myself constantly irritated and disgusted that so many of them are either competing or even getting air time on interviews.

I saw Marion Jones on Piers Morgan (CNN) and Dwain Chambers on BBC, I just think **** off, don't even put them in front of the cameras, they're worthless as athletes and pundits.

I like cycling, but it's constantly being damaged by the drug cheats. A convicted cheat (Vinokourov) won gold in the road race, and yesterday another cheat (Grégory Baugé) picked up silver in the sprint. They don't deserve it, and the road especially feels extremely devalued by the result.
Click to expand...

what a load of rubbish your post is. lets ban rio ferdindand too for failing a drug test while where at it :rolleyes:

these people served there time, learned there lessons and its time for u bitter people to move on
 
When Gatlin won Bronze on the 100m run, I was peed off. Not onces, but TWICE he's cheated. I personally think a 4 year ban on first time cheats and then life.

I understand there are a lot of circumstances that can cause one to be 'caught cheating' e.g. Silly therapist didn't check for Steriodol drugs in the cream they rubbed in. So first time serves as a warning, and second is a life ban from Olympics - the highest honour of an Athlete career; Even if they're not life time banned from International/World Championships, that's OK but in the the spirit of the Olympics, a platform that brings sports to the world, especially youngsters, a life ban is fair.
 
Instead of banning drugs 'cheats', perhaps the sporting authorities could rule they are not allowed to represent their country, but instead must compete under the flag of 'Drug Cheat LOL' or something.
That, or have a separate games. We already have Olympics and Paralympics, so perhaps it's time to have a Druglympics where the dopers can freely compete on equal terms and we can once more see Russian lady shotputters with beards, for example.
 
I'd ban them permanently, these partial bans obviously aren't enough of a deterrent to many of them seeing as they repeat the offenses.
 
jonneymendoza said:
what a load of rubbish your post is...
Click to expand...
I can see you've thought this through thoroughly, you make a persuasive argument.

Do you still feel it's fair that athletes come back if they've gained a permanent advantage due to permanent physiological changes as a result of drug enhancement.

Are you a Utd fan? Rio is an asshat and deserved his ban (he may have made an honest mistake, he may have been high/recently used recreational drugs) but let's not ignore the differences between football and athletics. Performance enhancing drugs can massively improve athletic performance and turn also rans into winners. This is not such a problem in sports like football, and indeed the extensive testing has shown that the drug scandals in football are mostly due to recreational drugs. Contrast this with the cyclist Baugé who missed more than one drug test, deeply suspicious in itself, more so with the widespread drug cheating problems in cycling. Thanks to WADA and weak sanctions he was competing in the Olympics.

Contador's six month ban ended today. Anyone believe the contaminated meat story? even after 10,000 samples of meat were tested and no trace of similar contaminant was found?

You think because athletes are caught they are all genuinely repentant? I'm damn sure they're all sorry they got caught, but quite a few cheat again and get caught again.


jonneymendoza said:
its time for u bitter people to move on
Click to expand...
Thanks for the insults, but try reading my post again. I said that the rational thing is to allow a second chance, even though I personally I want longer bans and stronger sanctions than the current system.
 
Last edited:
jonneymendoza said:
what a load of rubbish your post is. lets ban rio ferdindand too for failing a drug test while where at it :rolleyes:

these people served there time, learned there lessons and its time for u bitter people to move on
Click to expand...

Rio did not fail a drug test did he, he missed one and a year or so's ban was fair. However if he did it again 5 years woudl be fair to me. I mean if you can't learn from your mistakes,

You steal from your work place you are going to have a hell of a time getting a job especially where cash or anything of worth is. Cheats and thieves deserve everything they get and probably a lot more for the misery they cause, yet good normal people get shafted every day of the week due to these people.

Doping is cheating, a long ban for a first offfence and a permanent ban for a second.

Take golf, the masters in America does not allow women members, it's a private club no women. Yet that defies all rules around equality yet it still exists rightly or wrongly. Surely the Olympic commitee and it's legal team can come up with something that allows them to ban drug cheats from their competitions. Justin Gatland has had 2 drug bans yet still competes, taking a medal away from someone who has not cheated at all and some people think this is ok.

Everyone needs to be aware of what happens if you cheat and legally we should be pushing this through and saying no we do not want these people in our games unlike some of the soft bleeding heart do gooders who think cheats pay their dues and can be allowed back in. They did it because they thought they wouldn't get caught and all of a sudden they are sorry, i tell you this if they never got caught they would have a carried on doing it as if nothing had happened.

These competitions are amazing and the athletes have worked amazingly hard for years to get to this level and we should not allow drug cheats to spoil it.
 
Simply put, you get caught for being a drug cheat then you should be banned for life...simple as that.

I dont give a flying **** if they have served their time, they have learnt their lesson. Fact of the matter is that they have brought the sport into disrepute.

Absolutely loathe all drugs cheats and they should never be allowed to compete in the Olympics.
 
It's difficult, cheats shouldn't be allowed at the olympics, but ending someones chance because a team doctor lied to them and gave them something without them knowing because a team is willing to risk his career but he wasn't shouldn't see the athlete banned long term.

Likewise just about anyone could have something of their spiked very easily, or will we make it a rule that athlete's all grow and eat their own food, can't go to restaurants/clubs/pubs/anywhere.

There will be people that are genuinely high in testosterone level who might fail a test for too high testosterone based off no cheating at all, slim chance but should that one in a billion athlete be banned for life when he hasn't cheated?

I'm torn on the african female athlete that is female, was suspected by many to be a man and seemingly has a basically male hormone profile, high testosterone, hugely powerful, looks like a man, but hasn't cheated. It's almost unfair to let her compete against other women but its entirely not her fault she's a bit of a genetic freak.


Personally I'm far more angered by the false starts rule than the drug cheats rule. Current drug cheats will be found and banned and can't compete, simple as that, people who cheated a decent time ago can compete, some fairly, some unfairly. Someone who has spent the past 4 years training 6 days a week, giving up a huge portion of their live torn out of a race because they go 0.001ms early by accident is the single most unfair thing at these games.

Anyway, as with all situations regarding the law, you can blanket ban everyone for life but you will ban innocent people and it can ruin lives. If you let people back in those who were innocent(of cheating intentionally) you also get people who cheated very much on purpose.

There is no right answer, there is a question which is the lesser of two not ideal choices.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom