Copying Security Keys

dowie · 15 Oct 2011 at 22:07

Has anyone had to do this before?

Essentially I've got two keys to the door of the building I live in (block of apartments) - I'd like to give a set of keys to my parents, I'd like to give another set of keys to a female friend and I'd like to have a spare set of keys too - this would require 4 sets of keys. Copying the key for my front door isn't an issue however the key for the main door to the building is marked 'do not duplicate'.

Main question is - is it actually illegal to copy these keys (specific laws against it?) or is it just some sort of agreement between lock makers and particular big chain locksmiths. I.e. if not illegal then does anyone know of an independent locksmith in the London area that would copy such a key?

(please don't provide links if this is in fact illegal)

Would also add that I could, of course, contact the management company - I'm sure they've given out multiple copies to the security guards, cleaners etc... however they're generally slow to respond, get quite anal about this stuff and have a tenancy to charge silly admin fee's for any basic requests.

Gregry254 · 15 Oct 2011 at 22:13

When I used to live in a block of council flats we had to get a letter from the council expressing permission for us to make copies before any locksmith would even look at the key

Maybe the same thing applies to private lets?

J-FRO · 15 Oct 2011 at 22:16

Ring the management company and say you've lost both of your security keys. One a few years ago and the other recently. They might then give you two new ones (providing you stress you lost them somewhere where the key cannot be traced back to the block of apartments). It'd be cheaper for them to give you two new keys than to change the lock and issue new keys to everyone.

Turambar · 15 Oct 2011 at 22:16

I got a guy in a dodgy indoor market to do mine...

Scotteh · 15 Oct 2011 at 22:17

I'd contact the company

Assuming your renting could be in Terms and conditions

dowie · 15 Oct 2011 at 23:20

Any other suggestions on where I could get these cut/whether it is illegal?

Pudney · 16 Oct 2011 at 01:02

Whilst I highly doubt it's illegal the more important issue would be it's likely to be against whatever type of contract you have on the place, most probably rental. What you're suggesting is giving non residents access to the communal parts of your building, if you have any crappy neighbours and they complain you could be in trouble. So that's what I'd be checking, your contract.

MumboJumbo · 16 Oct 2011 at 01:05

If you ask them for another 2 sets of keys to give to strangers I'm pretty sure they are legally ablidged to refuse because that front door key puts everyone in the block of flats at risk. The only way to get another 2 sets is to claim the you lost the others but they likely won't give you two and instead only give you one more.

dowie · 16 Oct 2011 at 01:17

Well I'm not going to be giving the keys out to strangers I just want two other sets - I'm trying to find out whether or not it is feasible to get said keys cut easily or am I going to be wasting my time if I try a bunch of locksmiths?

Was hoping there might be someone who has some knowledge of this area?

MumboJumbo · 16 Oct 2011 at 03:13

A locksmith won't cut a key which has do not duplicate on it unless given expressed permission to do so.

Vonhelmet · 16 Oct 2011 at 08:32

8igdave said:
A locksmith won't cut a key which has do not duplicate on it unless given expressed permission to do so.

Or he's the type of locksmith who doesn't care, in which case, do you really want him cutting your keys?

Meridian · 16 Oct 2011 at 08:33

More importantly: you seem to missing the whole point of having secure keys, by making a whole more to get lost or stolen.

M

JC · 16 Oct 2011 at 09:56

I do believe it's illegal, I won't suggest you tell the management company that you lost them, they may well charge you the cost of new locks and replacement keys for the entire building.

SeatIbiza · 16 Oct 2011 at 10:14

Pray your agent isn't OM peverel or whatever other name they go under these days.

Replacement communal lock key (standard yale key circa £3 cut)...£24 please.

Biggest rip off merchants ever.

Trying to do a leasehold renewal with them at the moment and the amount they've asked for is ridiculous. They're also trying to alter the terms of the lease. There is a special place in hell reserved for these people.

R.C.Anderson · 16 Oct 2011 at 10:28

Pretty sure it's illegal to cut them. Whoever owns the building will have some form of ownership certificate, which is what's required to get new keys cut.

Although if I was another tenant in the block of flats that someone was wanting to get keys for friends/relatives that don't live there, I would be rather annoyed, as it makes the whol building less secure, just because 1 person can't be bothered to open the door themselves when they're visited.

SeatIbiza · 16 Oct 2011 at 10:34

Oh and I have a high security front key that has a credit card "owners" certificate. I took it to a well reputed locksmith and they didn't even ask to see the card...just cut the key.

Be prepared to pay £20-30 PER key though...

Mr Jack · 16 Oct 2011 at 10:57

Just take it to a key cutting place and get some cut. Worst that can happen is that they'll say they can't and you get to act surprised and try the next key cutting shop.

dowie · 16 Oct 2011 at 11:08

Vonhelmet said:
Or he's the type of locksmith who doesn't care, in which case, do you really want him cutting your keys?

Yes, that is exactly what I want, I want to find out whether these sorts of locksmiths are common or if I'd be wasting several hours if I start ringing round or calling in at various places trying to find a guy who will do it.

JC said:
I do believe it's illegal, I won't suggest you tell the management company that you lost them, they may well charge you the cost of new locks and replacement keys for the entire building.

Do you know if it is illegal or not - apparently it isn't in the US? I'm not going to go to the management company.

Mr Jack said:
Just take it to a key cutting place and get some cut. Worst that can happen is that they'll say they can't and you get to act surprised and try the next key cutting shop.

That is what I'll likely have to do, though if this is likely to be something that I'm almost 99% not going to be able to get done then I'd rather find out now than waste time going round various locksmiths.

dowie · 16 Oct 2011 at 11:10

R.C.Anderson said:
Although if I was another tenant in the block of flats that someone was wanting to get keys for friends/relatives that don't live there, I would be rather annoyed, as it makes the whol building less secure, just because 1 person can't be bothered to open the door themselves when they're visited.

People have temporarily given their spare set to cleaners and to estate agents before. I already have a spare set I could give out to someone anyway - point is I'd also like to have a spare set locked at my desk at work in the event I lose a set and a spare set at my parent's house.

Meridian said:
More importantly: you seem to missing the whole point of having secure keys, by making a whole more to get lost or stolen.

Keeping a set locked at my desk in a secure building and another set at my parent's house isn't actually going to affect security in the real world now is it.

Meridian · 16 Oct 2011 at 11:55

dowie said:
Keeping a set locked at my desk in a secure building and another set at my parent's house isn't actually going to affect security in the real world now is it.

You do remember what the road to Hell is paved with, right? And your parents obviously aren't going to bring their set when they come to visit; ditto GF. And when you and current GF break up, she obviously will hand the keys back. Etc. Etc.

M