Corruption at its lowest.

Hikari Kisugi said:
This is something I don't quite understand, for it to be an 'official secret' one would expect it to be written in the file of an MI5 officer somewhere, and if so, it isn't unlikely to warrant prosecution if the person is standing giving evidence in a court of law.
I can't think of an example on what someone could be prosecuted for evidence in a child abuse enquiry.
Give me an example?
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Information doesn't have to be marked secret to be kept as such.

The OSA can be broken by unlawful disclosure of official information, not necessarily secret. I don't have sc to access secret information but I'm bound by the OSA.

What I think has happened - and it's only an opinion - is that there has been a paedophile ring operating where members of the establishment have been active. Cyril Smith appears to have been caught at it by detectives on surveillance and pulled in, only to be released hours later and cops told to hand over everything to do with the case by senior and officers, who I have little doubt have been ordered to do so from above and no doubt threatened with prosecution under the OSA if they talked about it.

Why ? Because Cyril Smith would be capable of naming some very high profile paedophiles including MPs, police officers, senior Whitehall officials and perhaps even members of the security services and to protect them, Cyril Smith has literally been given a get out of jail free card.

The fact that the Westminster paedophile dossier seems to have gone walkabout only adds to my suspicion.

The whole thing stinks.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
Information doesn't have to be marked secret to be kept as such.

The OSA can be broken by unlawful disclosure of official information, not necessarily secret. I don't have sc to access secret information but I'm bound by the OSA.

What I think has happened - and it's only an opinion - is that there has been a paedophile ring operating where members of the establishment have been active. Cyril Smith appears to have been caught at it by detectives on surveillance and pulled in, only to be released hours later and cops told to hand over everything to do with the case by senior and officers, who I have little doubt have been ordered to do so from above and no doubt threatened with prosecution under the OSA if they talked about it.

Why ? Because Cyril Smith would be capable of naming some very high profile paedophiles including MPs, police officers, senior Whitehall officials and perhaps even members of the security services and to protect them, Cyril Smith has literally been given a get out if jail free card.

The fact that the Westminster paedophile dossier seems to have gone walkabout only adds to my suspicion.

The whole thing stinks.
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Indeed, I agree this is likely the case.
However, is the naming of such people actually an 'official secret'? I doubt it is, and I doubt the threat they make can be in any way valid. I would suggest many such people might now be dead also, but clearly not all, or this would be washed out at a faster rate.

I just don't think we will ever find the truth or the full scale of the activity or action.
 
Aye, you did what you were told, and people still do today, maybe not to the same extent, but Rotherham shows they still tow the line, even with stupid consequences.
30 years ago people certainly did what they were told.

Now the world has changed, one wonders just how 'powerful' these people can be nowadays. Embarrassing for all concerned no doubt, but to hide would be worse, as truth will out.
Best to get one with exposing whatever cesspit existed and whatever evidence of such remains in existence.
The destruction of that dossier certainly wrings of cover-up, but he has died now also. One wonders if the evidence exists anywhere, and if the 'boys' themselves actually want to come forward, or if they themselves are now establishment.
God knows.
 
What we need is staunch anti-state individuals heading up the enquiry. People who want to see the lot burn. I volunteer my services. I would even moan about it the enquiry costing more than it should. Unlike most people who will end up doing the enquiry happily spend £10millions on an enquiry and achieve absolutely nothing in the process.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
It appears that depraved activity may have been brushed under the carpet on instruction from the highest levels...
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Potentially a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway....

IIRC Cyril Smith was a Lib Dem MP, back in a time when Lib Dems were not in the government. So why [and who] would someone bother protecting him?
 
My view is that there were people in positions of power who engaged in depraved acts as did Cyril Smith and when he was arrested for it someone up the ladder feared that if charged, Cyril Smith could name some very high profile people so the order filtered down for him to walk.
 
Westyfield2 said:
Potentially a stupid question, but I'll ask anyway....

IIRC Cyril Smith was a Lib Dem MP, back in a time when Lib Dems were not in the government. So why [and who] would someone bother protecting him?
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Because he could name the other members of the kiddie fiddlers club he was alleged to be part of?
 
Did Cliff ever come back to the UK ..... ? Wonder why he didn't.

Smith was named on the infamous 'guest list' at Elm House, along with a number of other prominent people. I wonder if we'll see any of the following getting coverage (at last) now?

https://cigpapers.wordpress.com/2013/04/29/the-elm-guest-house-vip-paedophile-party-list/

Anthony Blunt, Royal Connections, MI5, traitor, Russian spy deceased.
Harvey Proctor, Monday Club, well known convicted paedophile.
Sir Peter Bottomley. Worthing MP and Monday Club
Charles Irving
Leon Britton, Lord, ex Thatcher Minister
Peter Brooke, Life Peer
John Rowe, MI5, former MP
Cyril Smith, deceased, ex Rochdale MP
Ron Brown
Colin Jordan, Politician and author
George Tremlett, Former GLC Leader
Peter Campbell, Monday Club
Gary Walker, Sinn Fein
Cliff Richard,aged Pop Star, known at Elm Guest House as ‘Kitty’
Jess Conrad, aged ex Pop Star.
Ron Wells, aged Musician, aka ‘Gladys’ at Elm Guest House.
Richard Miles, Monday Club
Chris Denning, ex BBC DJ, convicted paedophile.
R Langley, Buckingham Palace Equerry
Terry Dwyer
Patrick Puddles
Louis Minster, Head of Richmond Social Services
Colin Peters, QC – a convicted paedophile sentenced to 8 years in 1989
Steve Everett, Senior Westminster Social worker
Ray Wire, so called expert on Paedophile therapy
Peter Glencross, editor of Monday Club newsletter
Guy Hamilton Blackwell, son of Westland Helicopters Chairman
 
Von Smallhausen said:
My view is that there were people in positions of power who engaged in depraved acts as did Cyril Smith and when he was arrested for it someone up the ladder feared that if charged, Cyril Smith could name some very high profile people so the order filtered down for him to walk.
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This is what I believe to be the truth and a lot of the people who were involved are now dead or still in the establishment but getting quite elderly and quite prone to untimely deaths. I wonder if someone will be brave enough to expose the cesspit fully, or will they just take a quick look at the surface.
 
Zbornak said:
People may have missed it but an inquiry has been set up and is being led by someone who is not in the 'establishment'.
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Maybe so but is the choice far enough away from the establishment to merit totally impartial investigations. There is also the question of the investigations being hamstrung by non-cooperation and focus being steered by external forces controlling British members of the investigative team.

We can only hope that these factors do not compromise the impartiality and thoroughness of the process.
 
Von Smallhausen said:
What I think has happened - and it's only an opinion - is that there has been a paedophile ring operating where members of the establishment have been active. Cyril Smith appears to have been caught at it by detectives on surveillance and pulled in, only to be released hours later and cops told to hand over everything to do with the case by senior and officers, who I have little doubt have been ordered to do so from above and no doubt threatened with prosecution under the OSA if they talked about it.

Why ? Because Cyril Smith would be capable of naming some very high profile paedophiles including MPs, police officers, senior Whitehall officials and perhaps even members of the security services and to protect them, Cyril Smith has literally been given a get out of jail free card.

The fact that the Westminster paedophile dossier seems to have gone walkabout only adds to my suspicion.

The whole thing stinks.
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One issue I see is previously if anyone spoke about this level of corruption and cover up within the echelons of power, you would be branded a conspiracy theorist and discounted.

David Kelly anyone?

Now it's all coming out and shown these levels of abuse of authority do go on to such an extreme depraved level, child abuse, murder and remain covered up for decades....what faith should we have in the people at the top of the sytem now?

And just the way Burnsey said earlier 'It's all different now'....sure, I'm sure they thought that 40 years ago as well. People's general motivations don't change; hunger, sex, greed, love, compassion.....it just seems being in a position of power seems to enhance the more negative self serving aspects in a lot of people.
 
Freakbro said:
David Kelly anyone?
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The truth about David Kelly will not be allowed to come out, the protagonists are all alive and well and have too much to lose.

There is too much hypocrisy in the world, the British Government highlights human rights issues in China, Russia et al, but then allows UK citizens to be held in Guantanamo Bay detention camp for many years without trial and also allowed illegal rendition flights to use British airport facilities.

Power corrupts, it always does.
 
Ive not been following this news story so apologies if this rabbit hole runs very deep indeed and i am just ignorant of the goings on...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-34054955

But the ch4 interview with Harvey Proctor by Krishnan Guru-Murthy i thought was rather strange. I mean rather than focus on the current allegations (pretty horrendous allegations btw) KGM wanted to talk about the 1987
conviction Proctor got for sleeping with underage boys (17, 19).
Not the first interview KGM has given which imo has been crass and very unprofessional..

Apparently 1 person "Nick" who remains anonymous is making these historical allegations against Proctor. No other evidence is being presented. Also according to Proctor he claims the head of the police investigation Operation Midland a Det Supt Kenny McDonald publicly declared Nick's evidence to be "credible and true" << Doesnt that completely fly in the face of due process?

Where is the Justice if all it takes is an unfounded allegation by anyone to destroy a person?
 
Burnsy2023 said:
And it the bashing starts. Most Police are honest and reliable people who do the job because they believe in the cause, much like nurses and teachers. Indeed many who get questioned in the Smith enquiry may end up having the opportunity to explain how upset they were at the decision at the time.

Lets remember that stereotyping over 125,000 people is never going to work well.
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I firmly believe that there are many good people within the force, but with positions of power it does attract those with a desire to abuse it.

What's needed is to ensure the ethical police are fully empowered to keep the rest in check, the same needs to apply to all levels of government or positions of power. One thing which is clear is the top down approach has some significant risks associated with it.
 
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