cost comparison

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manic111 said:
Which still doesn't mean that they're overpriced ;)

Value is in the eyes of the purchaser. For me, the aspect ratio of the iPad Mini was worth the extra £100 over the Nexus 7. For others, it may not have been. This seems to be the point you're missing.
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Yup, the screen size and overall product size/ feel in the hand is also the reason I went for it over a Nexus 7.

Its the only tablet I've played with that actually feels like startrek tech. I know that sounds geeky but its thinness and screen size really remind me of the tabs seem in sci-fi programmes. The nexus 7 on the other hand is thick in the hand, has a much smaller screen and is a big lump of plastic, not a just two pieces, a piece of aluminium and a piece of glass. Not to mention the Nexus 7 would be more expensive if Google weren't using it as essentially a loss leader. Depending on what you read they either aren't likely to make much or are making a loss on it... It's to persuade everyone to buy into their ecosystem.
 
Amp34 said:
I do wonder, if someone started a thread in motors with the title "spec me a small fast sports car", wanting something like a lotus Elise or mx5, would you go in a d spec them a ford escort with several modifications...?

Honest it has the same horsepower and electric windows, its just as powerful and has a better spec and half the price... But its significantly bigger and totally different handling... You would be laughed out the thread, just like you insisting a fairly noisy, large cased computer is the "same" as a quiet AIO because its just as powerful...
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LiE said:
NirK, why do you even come to the Apple sub forum? It seems you have no interest in Apple except to try to tell people how they are all being ripped off.
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Because people like Nirk thinks getting a computer has only one criteria, the spec. They already have fairly advance windows and IT knowledge and don't require any IT support should anything goes wrong so the Apple care argument is moot to them but they can't get it round their head that is value to people who aren't in the same league as they are with IT know how.

I saw a lady in a store who was returning her printer because it doesn't work, it turns out she bought the wrong ink cartridge. There are people can't even read the item code on the ink cart to match it to the right one, how are they going to build a PC?

People who build their own rig are in a VERY minority in society. This is like in a kit car forum people taking the mick on people buying production cars, how a production car is slower, how it cost more. What about the warranty? what about the sales support? what about the better finish? You can't compare the 2 base on spec and horsepower alone. There are more to cars than pure speed and there is more to computers than Ghz.

Apple product cost more but your money buy you more things than pure Ghz. To ignore the rest of the package is side stepping all the valid points and in effect lost the argument.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
Because people like Nirk thinks getting a computer has only one criteria, the spec. They already have fairly advance windows and IT knowledge and don't require any IT support should anything goes wrong so the Apple care argument is moot to them but they can't get it round their head that is value to people who aren't in the same league as they are with IT know how.

I saw a lady in a store who was returning her printer because it doesn't work, it turns out she bought the wrong ink cartridge. There are people can't even read the item code on the ink cart to match it to the right one, how are they going to build a PC?

People who build their own rig are in a VERY minority in society. This is like in a kit car forum people taking the mick on people buying production cars, how a production car is slower, how it cost more. What about the warranty? what about the sales support? what about the better finish? You can't compare the 2 base on spec and horsepower alone. There are more to cars than pure speed and there is more to computers than Ghz.

Apple product cost more but your money buy you more things than pure Ghz. To ignore the rest of the package is side stepping all the valid points and in effect lost the argument.
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You just know this is going to fall on deaf ears though :(
 
Raymond Lin said:
Apple product cost more but your money buy you more things than pure Ghz. To ignore the rest of the package is side stepping all the valid points and in effect lost the argument.
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This is why it's ultimately pointless discussing it though, especially with people like you (no offence, but you have a bit of a reputation for Apple-ness on here). You will always resort back to the subjective argument no matter what quantifiable evidence is put forward. You can't lose the argument because you can't win it either. Best case is always agreeing to disagree. Are Apple overpriced? On some products in my opinion yes, on others I think they're actually comparatively cheap. Is my opinion any more or less right than Nirk? No. Do I have any more or less right to claim victory in the argument because it's in the Apple sub forum where more users are likely to agree that they're reasonably priced? No. Is Nirk wrong? If he believes not, then no.

Don't want to look like I'm sticking up for NirK because frankly his posts annoy me as much as anyone, but this is what it generally comes down to. If someone could somehow quantify every last bit of the Apple chain you'd still find something that was just 'worth it'. If you go beyond the GHZ into a completely hypothetical and very poorly formatted late night argument, say the aesthetics, say I actually prefer a LianLi case or whatever.. So you'd say well the Operating system is better, so I say hackintosh, which you'll say isn't the same or something about stability/complexity, so I say it's exactly the same/simple and perfectly stable, so you say the customer service package is superior, so I say the customer service of the components used is actually superior in every way, etc etc, to which we'd inevitably end up with the argument that 'It's just the whole thing with Apple, it's just better'. No matter what you try and disprove, there will always be that ace up your sleeve and that's that. Like I say, no argument to lose, no argument to win. And no I don't care if that wall of text and commas made your head hurt :p
 
LiE said:
NirK, why do you even come to the Apple sub forum? It seems you have no interest in Apple except to try to tell people how they are all being ripped off.
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I think you have a point tbh.... Well all the comments are interesting but I agree that it is a completely pointless thing to do in the first place.... Go onto an apple forum and tell people that they are overpriced...

Anyway I have learnt a few things about macs and why they might be justified for some people. I still personally think that most apple products are too expensive for what you are getting though, but that is just my opinion.

I think the ford example is a bit silly because that is something which is clearly different whereas a well specced PC is identical in performance as well as it still looks good and is quiet etc. But yes for someone with low PC knowledge then maybe the whole package does justify the cost overall with the various advantages the imac has..... Not sure the same can be said for the Mac pro though.
 
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I am going to not say anything else because there is such a monumental apple bias in this thread it is impossible to have an objective opinion.

Somehow I am the bad guy now in this thread when all I ever did was propose that apple may actually be over priced and then provided evidence for this LOL.

Lesson learned... Dont go into an apple thread and say anything against apple products.
 
Go start a discussion about this in the General Hardware forum, maybe you'll find people who actually care about your opinion.
 
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Yar ok. Although I am bored of it now. Sorry if I caused any offence in the forum. Nice speaking to you all. Goodbye. hahaha
 
NirK said:
I think you have a point tbh.... Well all the comments are interesting but I agree that it is a completely pointless thing to do in the first place.... Go onto an apple forum and tell people that they are overpriced...

Anyway I have learnt a few things about macs and why they might be justified for some people. I still personally think that most apple products are too expensive for what you are getting though, but that is just my opinion.

I think the ford example is a bit silly because that is something which is clearly different whereas a well specced PC is identical in performance as well as it still looks good and is quiet etc. But yes for someone with low PC knowledge then maybe the whole package does justify the cost overall with the various advantages the imac has..... Not sure the same can be said for the Mac pro though.
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But it's not... It is a very similar argument, you just can't comprehend it.

The point is a well specced PC that has had considerable work put into it to make it identical in performance and quietness will still look different, in your case being much bigger with an ATX case, or in my case with a passive mini ITX build. It'll still look different, use more of a footprint etc., for example the cost of my build of a totally passive mini ITX machine is no different in the end to a similar iMac, except I have only integrated graphics (photoshop doesn't need any more than that unless you're doing video work). The difference is its a different form factor, I don't want to have to change screens when I change my computer, like you'd have to do with an iMac.
 
uniQ said:
Fixed.
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I disagree.

It's the same in the mobile forum (mostly). It's all very well having a forum where people can pat others on the back about how great a particular manufacturers products are (opening of apple stores and when new products come out anyone...) but a far more impartial forum is at better.

Yes there are those that are evangelical about their product but a forum that can allow a "should I get an iMac" or "should I get a MBA" (for example) thread to have people saying "how about an Asus" or "here's a similar spec windows computer", otherwise its just a big back patting excercise that benefits no one... It's bad enough having its own forum without forcing those that aren't evangelical out...

(From a guy that owns apple products and has ended up on the receiving end of the "stop being negative about apple" bandwagon when suggesting possibly better alternatives to products he owns...)
 
I'm not sure why you quoted me?

Nobody said anything about not being able to be critical of Apple. The issue is Nirk repeating old hashed out arguments full of flawed logic dressed up as irrefutable fact ad nauseam threatening to leave only to return 5 mins later to repeat the cycle.

If you disagree w/ that then *shrugs*
 
uniQ you seem to have an attitute problem, None of my logic was flawed, all I ever did was repeatedly prove that apple do indeed overcharge for items. I even made a post trying to be nice at the end saying that overall the package of imac may justify the price for some people.
 
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You haven't proved anything. You have an opinion it isn't a fact. And It's iMac not imac.

Edit: NirK you might wan't to think through your posts for 5 mins before hastily responding and then editing your juvenile responses. Yes I saw the ASCII willy you drew this morning. And yes I saw the (ironic) Aspergers comment. :rolleyes:
 
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