Couple noobie gym questions

[DaWG]

Firstly, how much time do you people spend in the gym per session?

I often find I've done my 'routine' after 40/45 minutes, but then seeing as I feel I haven't been there 'long enough' often go back and start over again until I've been there at least an hour. Is there a minimum / maximum time i should be there? I really don't see how people can spend more than an hour at max in any one trip.

Also, I've only been going about a month now, trying to eat more better foods and everything else mentioned in the stickies, but so far ive been using machines (yes, i know, read on!) over free weights, as a) i'm just trying to get into a routine of going at the moment, and b) the guys that use the free weights are massive, and in comparison I'm like a twig...

Now, i'm intending to start doing a split routine using free weights soon, but i'm wondering how people can work solely one muscle group for an entire session? At present i don't split my workout, and each time i go i use pretty much all the machines for chest/back/biceps/triceps/legs etc, and if i do one or two of the same group in a row, by the next machine for that group i just can't lift half of what i should be able to and therefore alternate machines to give me a break, so i might do arms>legs>arms>legs etc...

Once i split my workout, how the hell am i meant to be able to spend say 45 mins to an hour using the same muscles? or should i be dropping to an easier weight to compensate for the fact that i'll be using the same muscles on the next exercise?

thanks in advance

 

[Morba]

If you have done your routine in 45 mins and feel pretty fresh still, you arent lifting with enough intensity.

the guys might be massive, but that is no excuse. machines have their place (i'm currently almost exclusively using machines) but go get moving the free weights :]

How can you spend so long?
If you are using a decent tempo then 3x10 with a 90sec rest period will take you about 10 mins (inc warmup set).

To start with, how about doing 1 major exercise per muscle group, then do some assitance work, eg:

Chest:
Dips - big exercise
DB incline press - assistance
db flyes - assitance

thats 30 mins, couple it with say Biceps and you have 45 mins of a workout.
that also kinda answers your next question, about doing 2 exercises for the same muscle.
Assistance work will generally not be at the same strength as the main exercise, but as long as it is as intensive (if you are aiming for 3x10 then hitting 10,9,8 would be classed as pretty much spot on for intensity).


One thing. The amount of weight you are lifting is just a number. If you lift say 50kg one week, then only 40kg the next, that is not a problem as long as the intensity was the same :]

 

[Banzai_Joe]

If you only been training for a month or so, then i assume someone advised you to do some cardio as warmup? Which is a fair call no matter what level you're at and should take up 10 mins on its own.
But as a relative noob i'd still be working on muscle endurance if i were you, especially seeing as you've said how doing two exercises in a row for the same muscle group knackers you out. Thats what muscle endurance training is for.
But like Morba said, if after 45mins you aren't shattered, up your weights and intensity for a while. My split routine takes 30mins tops to do 1-2 bodyparts. Its has to be that way cos that all the time i get in the gym on my lunch break.
If you really are gonna split routine, i'd only train 3 times a week and do basic compounds....seeing as you look like "a twig".

Good luck!

ps...oh....don't let the ego of other's influence your training mate. Absorb what is useful, discard the useless. The gym will be full of people who all train different to the next person. There's no singular way to train, but there are sensible ones.

 

[WantoN]

Splits are pretty intensive and not something I'd recommend for a beginner. Whilst all the above information is true I personally wouldn't feel comfortable setting you up with a focused split just yet.

Could you post an exact beakdown of what you do at the moment? Excersises, reps, sets, weights. Also, what are your goals? Do you want to loose weight, bulk up, get fitter or just look better?

Bodyweight excersises are an excellent starting point, and before the big boys wade in to disagree let me explain. Body weight excersises are safe, they work within your natural plane of movement, and they will help appendage stabilisation and core stability. They can also be used in circuits without so much worry about loss of form, and are an excellent base for building explosive power.

Putting some decent bodyweight excersises in, then moving onto circuits is what I reckon I'd recommend. Then moving onto an upper body, lower body split twice a week. Before finally moving onto a four/five day split in 2-3 months time.

That's not to say you CAN'T jump straight into a four day split, but I believe that a steady progression alongside some decent cardio is going to see you getting fitter and stronger, and when you finally hit the four day split you'll be able to do it with real intensity, working from a strong aerobic/anaerobic base of fitness.

Post your current routine and give us a better idea of where you're coming from

Ant

EDIT: Quoted for absolute truth:

ps...oh....don't let the ego of other's influence your training mate. Absorb what is useful, discard the useless. The gym will be full of people who all train different to the next person. There's no singular way to train, but there are sensible (and safe!) ones.

 

[DaWG]

Thanks for the replies. Off the top of my head (can't remember the names of the machines...)


There's one which you sit on and pull down from above (lateral pull downs?), on which i'm currently doing 3x8 @ 55kg

a 'pec machine?' - two handles which i grab from the sides and push so that my arms are straight in front of me - 3x8 @ 35kg

one where i sit down, grab the handles in front of me and pull them back so my elbows are under my shoulders, 3x8 @ 45kg

another pec/tricep one (i think) where i sit down and push the bars directly away from me, 3x8 @ 30Kg

one which works shoulder muslces (?) where i sit on it and push the bars above my head, 3x8 @ 25Kg

then onto legs:

a machine where i sit down, put my feet on a board in front of me and push against it, 3x8 @ 75Kg

another leg machine i sit down on and push my legs apart from each other, 3x8 @ 75Kg

same as above, but push legs together, 3x8 @ 75 Kg

one where i sit down with my ankles under a bar which i lift up (works quadriceps?), 3x8 @ 65Kg

and i'll usually do some sit-ups as well. As stated in the previous post, i'll normally do upper body machine > leg machine etc etc to give me a rest between different exercises.

And if it helps at all, i'm about 5'11" and about 72KG

And finally, congrats to anyone who bothered to read / translate that

 

[WantoN]

Lat Pull Downs - 3x8 @ 55KG
Pec Dec - 3x8 @ 35KG
Seated Row - 3x8 @ 45KG
Seated Chest Press - 3x8 @ 30KG
Shoulder Press - 3x8 @ 25KG

Leg Press - 3x8 @ 75KG
Abductor - 3x8 @ 75KG
Adductor - 3x8 @ 75KG
Leg Extensions - 3x8 @ 65KG

Translated for the lazy

I'll have a think tomorrow and post up a few suggestions, its late now
How long do you rest between each set (set of repititions)?
You didn't answer my query about your goals either mate, could you let me know about them?
Do you not warmup, cooldown or stretch? Have you even had any inductions? What about cardio stuff?

Ant

 

[Banzai_Joe]

Think me and WantoN think along the same lines .
DaWG from your routine breakdown, with respect if you don't even know what machines you're using and it seems like you don't truly understand what muscle groups each machine is working and how, i'd strongly suggest getting more educated and used to your gym equipment over the next few months before even thinking about split routines. I'm not basing my assumptions purely on the fact that you've guessed the names of the some of the kit, but it does sound like you've not had a proper induction on this kit, which means as simple as a leg press may look there are ways to operate it that will alter the emphasis on your quads, which you'd certainly feel the day after . I suggest you get to fully understand the variations of each machines AND free weights before looking to split.
I'm just coming back after another 6 week layoff, and i'll do 3 days/week full body workout, once i feel i'm back into the swing (usually 2-3 weeks), i'll go back to split routines.
Take your time dude, there's no rush. And if you ARE in a rush, start thinking about what you'll do when you can't go to the gym due to injury sustained from improper training!

 

[DaWG]

Thanks again for the replies.

Rest-wise, i give it about a minute between each 8 reps and a few minutes between sets.

As for goals, the standard i suppose - i'm looking to put on another stone or so, and just look a lot better (i'm thinking brad pitt in fight club ) - i'm going travelling in about 16 months, so want to look good by then, but the soooner the better...

Don't really know what i'm doing in terms of warmup/down/stretching so don't bother. I was inducted at the gym and shown how to use all the machines - as far as i'm aware i am using them correctly. And as for cardio, the instructor did suggest starting each session with that, but everything i read on here said the total opposite, and that if i want to bulk up, i shouldn't bother with cardio, so i haven't bothered with it at all.

thanks in advance again

 

[Prophet]

As for goals, the standard i suppose - i'm looking to put on another stone or so, and just look a lot better (i'm thinking brad pitt in fight club ) - i'm going travelling in about 16 months, so want to look good by then, but the soooner the better...

What size are you currently (height/weight)?

Brad Pitt in fight club had a very low body fat percentage. To get that look you need to cut body fat to sub 10%, probably a fair bit less. Thats a feat in itself!

 

[Morba]

most people would need to lose weight, rather than gain, to look like brad pit. he doesnt have that much muscle, just low bf% and good camera work :]

 

[nicktay2605]

Funny you should say that, one of my friends yesterday said that Brad Pitt in Fightclub is what he would aim for too. I think the weight/look you aim for depends on what you do. I play lots of football and tennis so I wouldn't want to get as big as a rugby player or body builder because it would inhibit my ability in those two sports.

For me, two examples of good body shape to aim for are C.Ronaldo and Rafa Nadal, both lean but quite powerful.

 

[Morba]

I wouldnt worry too much about weights and stuff then really, having an athletic body would be based around good cardio and good diet. weights on top of that, rather than as the basis of your routines :]

 

[Banzai_Joe]

Don't really know what i'm doing in terms of warmup/down/stretching so don't bother. I was inducted at the gym and shown how to use all the machines - as far as i'm aware i am using them correctly. And as for cardio, the instructor did suggest starting each session with that, but everything i read on here said the total opposite, and that if i want to bulk up, i shouldn't bother with cardio, so i haven't bothered with it at all.

thanks in advance again

Hence my statement regarding injuries.
I think you're probably misinterpreting 'cardio' for warmup.
Most heavy lifters do cardio after a heavy workout as their glycogen has been used lifting weights therefore fat is used when doing cardio aftwerwards. Thats why they don't condone it beforehand
But YOU (and most other people for that matter) need to warm up by doing light exercises before weights. Treadmill, cycle, or rower for 5-10mins will warm you up sufficiently, plus a little stretching, particularly of the limbs you are about to train.
Its primarily to ready your muscles for the beasting your about to give them and minimise risk of injury.

 

[Morba]

A warm up doing some cardio isnt a bad thing, as long as it is a warm up.

Stretching on the other hand, be very careful what you are stretching and how you are stretching, prior to doing weights.

 

[ethos]

About 1 1/2 hours at the moment, 5 times a week.

 

[WantoN]

Ok, I think we need to blast some misconceptions out of the water right now.

After the initial 8-12 week noobie stage the rapid growth you experience will slow, sometimes very dramatically. After that it's hard, hard graft, clever training and proper eating and rest. You say putting on a stone as if it's nothing, if you mean 14lbs of pure muscle, for a beginner, in 1yr 4 months, you're going to have to get serious, and while you're at it, some awesome genes, a great diet plan and a PT.

Bradd pitt had decent musculature and very low bodyfat in fight club, and to be honest that's a hard aim for anyone to go for (and maintain!) without some good training knowledge, a good set of genes and some very stringent dieting.

Fact of the matter is, people don't go to the gym for a year and turn into cover models. Otherwise everyone would look like it. It takes a lot of hard work, and a lot of time.

Warming up is very, very important, it increase synovial fluid production, increases muscle temperature and dialates the capillaries that fuel your body. Without proper warmup and proper warmup sets, you risk injury, big time. As for pre-stretches, I agree with Morba as far as pre-stretching goes, if you're lifting hard, then increasing elasticity PRIOR to weights can be dangerous, also, imbalances in your stretching routine can increase risk. Rather work on the developmental and maintenance post-stretches your PT took you through.

To be honest I think you need to get aquainted with a decent GI/PT at the gym, and have them help with improving your routine and getting some cardio in there. I'd recommend a good base level of fitness and knowledge before you start persuing more hardcore routes. As well as an understanding of what you're actually doing and why.

Serious mode off. Excersise is fun, healthy and it makes you look good! You'll continue to look and feel better, and the addiction will become inavoidable But you can't rush it fella, it doesn't happen overnight.

Start researching circuits, plyometrics and body weight excersises. Then move onto HIIT, core stability and free weights. Take your time, do it RIGHT and in 16 months you'll be looking fantastic. But get your base knowledge first.

Ant

 

[WantoN]

Hence my statement regarding injuries.
I think you're probably misinterpreting 'cardio' for warmup.
Most heavy lifters do cardio after a heavy workout as their glycogen has been used lifting weights therefore fat is used when doing cardio aftwerwards. Thats why they don't condone it beforehand

Technically the body will have a higher propensity to metabolise proteins in the muscles rather than fat. BBs who're trying to cut will often use HIIT as a glycogen smasher and metabolic boost on off-days.

The majority of fat burning occurs when asleep as the body fasts for 8 hours

The big body builders are generally not heart monkeys. They're often bigger than even personal trainers, but at a cost. Whilst anaerobically very fit, aerobic fitness is lacking, and anything endurance based is a real task. That said, there are plenty of very big chaps who've got awesomely balanced routines and are really, very fit indeed.

Ant

 

[Morba]

often? i rarely see BIG personal trainers unless they specialise in BB'ing or PL'in. The main reason for this is people want to be like their PTs, so, looking like what your customer wants is a good advert.
Also, women (a big chunk of PT users) don't want big hefty men training them.
Your standard PT will be fit and normally have a body that most people aspire to. Your standard random gym PT will just be fit and generally healthy.

 

[Banzai_Joe]

lol, yeah i was dumbing it down a little for him.
Your science is probably better tham mine, so i'll let you deal with that. I just didn't want to overwhelm the poor guy.

 

[crumblepuff]

My routine is 10 minutes cross trainer, 10 minutes on the bike, some stretches, and then about 30 minutes on the weights, then I reckon about ten mins floor work. Then if I have time head for a swim.

I change my routine every couple of months.