Creating a Sound setup

[PhilleH]

Hi folks,

I've been using a sony hi-fi with "built in surround" since the turn of the century and finally decided it's worth relegating that to bedroom duties and picking up a new setup for the front room.
Been doing endless amounts of research on this and still can't make up my mind about what would be suitable for my current needs. If anyone has any wisdom as to what I should be looking at it would be greatly appreciated.

So this is for my living room, which is approx. 17ft x 12ft x 8ft. The television and sofa are directly facing each other and will be around a third of the way across the 17ft wall (around 4ft gap from TV stand to the nearest wall) , but there is a door behind the sofa so that must be at least a couple of feet away from the wall. Ear to front speaker distance would therefore be between 8-9ft. I live in a maisonette so do have neighbours to consider. It's reasonably well soundproofed (well, no one has complained yet!) but I'm more keen on clarity at sensible volumes than a particular need for massive oomph. I don't want to spend more than £800 at this point in time but am happy to pick up extras in the future.

My main conundrum is whether to go with floorstanders or bookshelf speakers. Richersounds gave me a good quote today for a pair of BX5's and a Sony STR-DN840 receiver (under £750). I could pick this up and add a centre, sub and rears at a later date (this maybe the best option for my wallet short of picking up a much cheaper seperates bundle). I do much prefer the aesthetics of floorstanders but at the same time I don't want to be throwing my money at something unnecessary when I may get better benefit from the cheaper bookshelfs.

The biggest thing I have yet to understand is whilst I seem to have a big enough room to justify the floorstanders, will I really realise the benefit when there is a relatively close rear and side wall and then a long distance to the other side wall? and then even if I do would this be the best route to go down in terms of short and long term bang for buck?

All advice appreciated I have tried to do my research on brands and speakers but I'm very much a novice at the sound manipulation side of things.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[lucid]

I think your plan for the BX5's with the receiver is sound (if you'll pardon the unintentional pun). I have used and installed BX5s in similar sized rooms with good success. More than this though, it's what you could buy in bookshelves + stands + sub for similar money to the BX5's.... and the answer is nothing of the same calibre.

BX2 (£249) + stands (£50) + MA Bronze sub (£449) = £750

BX2 (£249) + stands (£50) + BK XLS200 (£320) = £620

IMO you'd need the BX2 to match the performance of the BX5 mid and top end. Anything less just won't be in the same league, not even remotely. And in order to hit the sort of discounted price you got on the BX5's then the standmounters would need to be very cheap indeed. I'd estimate about £100~£130 per pair. There's no way that speakers at that price will come anywhere near the performance of the BX2's/BX5's

One could argue that the sub would have greater bass extension. Yes, and so it should. Buying a cheaper sub simply to replicate the BX5 bass extension is a false economy IMO. If you have good front speakers then the sub should be of a similar calibre. The BK would be a very good choice.

So, all things considered, the BX5s make a logical choice, and that's good because it's the speakers you actually want as well.

If there was one change you to your intended system, I'd say audition the Yamaha 673 quick before they all sell out. This was a £500 AV amp with extra tuning for music performance. At £299 for remaining stocks then it's a steal. I'm sure the Sony is very good. But it's a £400 AV amp and not a "was £500" AV & Music amp.

 

[PhilleH]

That's fantastic thanks Lucid. The answer I wanted too Can't complain.

I actually went into my local Richer Sounds in hope of finding a 673 but they didn't have any left in stock, but I'm heading down to Southampton tomorrow to visit my favourite swedish shop and they apparently have one in the branch there so will see if I can give it a go.. maybe forced into investing a little earlier than I expected!

This maybe a stupid question but how much difference would I expect to see (or hear)? Whilst the Yamaha is a touch cheaper on paper, it doesn't have wireless and is deeper (so I would need to cut space in the back of TV stand to fit it) otherwise the features seem to be almost identical. You mentioned it had extra tuning for music performance, will there be other noticeable differences? I'm not a massive audiophile but also want to get the best performance I can for my money.
I expect the answer will be to suck it and see but want make sure I'm looking for the right things (especially if I go for the 673, which I may need to think about quickly).

Final question, if I go for the BX5s, what would be the optimal route for the rest of the equipment? I'm thinking Centre, Sub, Rears in that order?

 

[lucid]

Yep, good questions.

No wireless isn't a deal breaker in my book. It's easy enough to add a wireless bridge, and if you do that then there's the opportunity to wire up other devices that have Ethernet ports too.

The Yamaha amp is deeper because it uses discrete components, a beefier transformer and heat sinks, an audio-grade chassis for damping, and generally larger and heavier components in the pursuit of sound quality. Look at the weights: 8.5 kg for the Sony versus 10.2 kg for the Yamaha.

You can read up on the Yamaha web site, or look through the magazine reviews. Most of the decent review talk about the benefit of having individual amplifier stages for each channel. That's what they mean by "discrete".

As for sound, I don't hold with the idea that being an audiophile is an elitist thing. I think if you're interested in sound quality, and want the best for your money at whatever level of expenditure, then by definition you are an audiophile. There's nothing wrong with that.

There is a difficulty in directly answering your question about the sound of the Yamaha vs the Sony. I would hope you can hear it. But a lot depends on what you're looking for. If it's just more; -more treble, -more bass, a bigger sound, then it's possible to hear that just because one amp is more powerful than another. It doesn't mean that the sound is closer to the original though.

However, if you can hear past brightness and listen to the performance, then that's where the amps should become easier to split. Does the singer's voice seem to carry more emotion. Is there a sense of the instrumentalists doing more than just playing the notes. If the track was recorded live, does it sound like the musicians are playing off each other. The better the electronics and speakers then the closer the reproduction gets to what was recorded on the day.

I have a couple of favourite tracks I use for evaluating gear. The first is titled Why Walk When You Can Fly, from the album 'Stones in the Road' by Mary Chapin Carpenter. It starts with a solo piano. Then comes her voice. Finally the rest of the band joins in. First I listen for the piano. Does it sound like a piano, and does it have that 'other strings and wood chassis vibrating' sound that you get with a grand piano. Can I hear the sustain and the damping. Is there a sense of her playing musical phrases rather than just notes. Most musicians play like their mimicking a voice speaking or singing. Then comes her voice. Do I get a sense of it positioned between the speakers. Does it seem as if there's a sense of space around her voice. How easy are her words to follow, and again listen to the phrasing; does it sound like she's singing words she cares about. When the band joins in I'm listening for how many of the instruments I can hear, and how easily I can follow each, and how much depth and space do they occupy between and around the speakers. A good system will maintain the stereo imaging even when the mix gets really busy. A poorer system will let it collapse so that it sounds like everyone is playing from a small patch between the speakers.

One of the other tracks I use is Hercules from the album 'All Is Dream' by Mercury Rev. If a system has "it" then I get a better sense of the ebb and flow of the rhythm. This is going to sound a bit odd, but I imagine that the rhythm is like the feeling of tacking in a sail boat. There's the sense of coasting a bit, then the wind fills the sails and you're off until the next turn.

In the end you have to trust your own ears and your own judgement. A quick test is to hear if you can tell the difference between stereo and pure direct mode.

 

[9designs2]

Lucid, you gain an extra ranking point for MCC .. just had to put the album on now.