Current feel for the IT job market?

[NickK]

I'd be similar. It's been a good 16yrs I did much coding. Too long out of it to get back to it. Also now a generalist, but more on the DevOps side, a lot of SQL and admin work in the back end and cloud. Tbh I was happier when I was in the BA/UI space. I prefer to build new things than maintain things.

I find I get spammed on LI with gibberish enquires from recruiters who don't know anything about IT or the roles in it. Maybe I'll go back and do a better profile.

I tend to focus on what is interesting to me. Hence I have an eclectic mix on the CV with self employed gaps developing stereo drone vision, low light astronomy image tracking and control. So I was happy in the high end roles but getting back into them seems to be particularly hard (last time I interviewed was 2015/2016). So I'm also considering simply kicking back and trying something new - I've applied as a lead golang coder. Oddly the company is doing what've done before (large scale transaction processing using almost the same tech I used previously) - I bring that expertise, Golang isn't that different from C++.. and for 4 days in the office a month with a decent salary then I'll probably be interested getting back to grass roots
The alternative is start thinking MBA on the side of that programming course..

That's their value, unless he's been deployed to an area in MSFT that AWS aren't competing in, or, there's financial hardship/constructive dismissal in the mix. Senior members may offer enough business value that the legal team of the headhunting business may work through the legalities.

Actually something just hit me from what I've read recently. Previously employers make lots of threats and barred returning employees, that culture is no longer tolerated by employees that they're trying to chase back later telling them to GFTS. Instead the FAANG are starting to move to open doors - staff are welcome back or suffer their shot foot for ever more.
It may explain why Amazon are having issues recruiting.. and that they're no longer being quite as aggressive.

 

[OspreyO]

I probably need a career makeover. Our internal process is competency based and takes about a week just to fill out the form. I just don't have the patience for the all the hoops HR make you jump through these days.

 

[RobHu]

What would you consider to be a "US tech salary"?

In London somewhere north of £100k total comp (salary + bonus + stock) for an experienced engineer, with even grads and juniors getting close to £100k. Depends a bit on the company I guess, e.g. MS/Amazon seems to be not too far above the £100k mark whereas FB/Google/Palantir etc are quite a lot higher - £150k or more. Basing those figures on friends that work for some of those companies + levels.fyi. About half of what you'd make in an equivalent COL area in the US apparently .

 

[dlockers]

I probably need a career makeover. Our internal process is competency based and takes about a week just to fill out the form. I just don't have the patience for the all the hoops HR make you jump through these days.

I'm not sure the other system is any easier, especially if you aren't build for a week of work for your own benefit.

 

[jon86]

About half of what you'd make in an equivalent COL area in the US apparently .

There is still plenty of recruiters that message me about jobs that pay much less than the numbers that you mentioned, and much less than what my past and current US employers pay. It makes me think that these recruiters don't even look at my profile anymore, and simply use an automated tool to send emails to many candidates at once (including me).

With that said, the big US tech companies definitely do pay very well in the USA, especially when you live in a big tech hub city, like San Francisco, Boston, New York, and Seattle. A web developer in one of these locations with 5 to 10 years of experience who has learned to interview well (to get a job) and now works for a big US tech firm should be able to earn ~$300K+ /year. The more senior folks can get paid $400K, $500K, and even $600+K /year.

 

[Throrik]

The signing fee in American big tech especially is great too - wish we had that over here in a way

 

[Ev0]

The signing fee in American big tech especially is great too - wish we had that over here in a way

They are here, just not usually offered or available for everything and does tend to be the US firms that are more open to them.

Granted the values might not be in the same ball park, but I asked and got a 5 figure ‘joining bonus’ included in my current offer.

 

[HangTime]

I'm curious to know what you consider to be an "insane salary", given that the market value for tech skills has grown massively in recent years.

I assume he means insane relative to the turnover of those SME organisations. There comes a point where "market rates" are too expensive for some employers, I think there's a bunch of roles in IT that are paid 'too much' in the sense of even if that's how much you need to pay to get that skillset, I sometimes wonder if you'd be better off not hiring that skillset at all, but instead seeking alterative approaches to filling the underlying business need. I say this as someone's who's experienced different ends of the spectrum; I've had jobs where I've considered myself massively underpaid (should have been earning double) and equally jobs where I couldn't really justify what I was costing the end client.

 

[Brumboy]

IT job market is insane. I started my IT career only 5 years ago. In that time I've done 2 contracts and 2 perm roles, started as 1st line, then 2nd, now I just got a new job paying £40k in West Midlands which is essentially a 3rd line/sysadmin role.

If someone said I'd be earning £40k after a few years without any degree, certs or qualifications I would not believe it at all.

But if you're highly ambitious, have a bit of intelligence and have good soft skills (underrated skill in my opinion) you can definitely make good money.

I feel like I have fast tracked my career this year because of the market conditions and I'm earning as much as 3rd line engineers in my previous role where I was 2nd line on £22k!

In fact I just checked the threads I made in 2017 about entering the IT industry with no experience. I am so proud of myself I admit. I'm very happy with my progress.

 

[malachi]

IT job market is insane. I started my IT career only 5 years ago. In that time I've done 2 contracts and 2 perm roles, started as 1st line, then 2nd, now I just got a new job paying £40k in West Midlands which is essentially a 3rd line/sysadmin role.

If someone said I'd be earning £40k after a few years without any degree, certs or qualifications I would not believe it at all.

I would because I did and you did well.. You came into IT a great time when good skills are needed.

 

[Brumboy]

I would because I did and you did well.. You came into IT a great time when good skills are needed.

Thank you very much! It's been an interesting journey to say the least.

The company I now work for is fully SAAS & Fintech based. So I think I can definitely gain some valuable experience.

But yeah, if people are 50/50 about leaving their comfy job, please take the risk, it will be worth it I am sure.

 

[Furyus]

I've just recently just lost my job now, and genuinely looking at getting back in IT, I've not got any certifications, but used to do 1st line about 10 years ago. Its just finding that one company who is willing to take a chance on you.

 

[ChrisD.]

Regarding the big US companies, yes the figures look really, really attractive but they work you to the bone. I expect I could get an extra 30-50(?)% by moving to AWS, Microsoft or similar, but when I look at my current quality of life versus what I might experience after moving, I'll stay put I think.

Same as pre-sales, it sounds very attractive but in theory I'd be on the road a lot, whereas now I work from where I want to. I can go to an office, I can work from home, I can work from Spain. It doesn't matter, as long as my projects are delivered. With a 4 week old baby, family is my priority now rather than greed.

 

[dowie]

Same as pre-sales, it sounds very attractive but in theory I'd be on the road a lot, whereas now I work from where I want to. I can go to an office, I can work from home, I can work from Spain. It doesn't matter, as long as my projects are delivered. With a 4 week old baby, family is my priority now rather than greed.

Absolutely, it was ridiculous in one firm I worked in, the consultancy arm was notorious for sending people to X location for 3 months then extending the stay by another 3 months then another etc. Quite a few older guys divorced or going through a divorce or marriage in serious trouble. Pre-sales didn't have quite the same issues in that they obviously don't hang around but there was a heck of a lot of travel, it wasn't broken down by region either, there was one guy for each particular domain so if they needed the expert on X to pitch to a client in Asia then off he went, then off to the US 2 weeks later etc..

Paid well enough that even dev managers would do it, in fact they liked that if the pitch for X part of the product involves a former dev manager for X... For them, though they go from say managing a team of 8 to being an individual contributor on a team lead by a salesperson their comp could go from say circa 150+ as a dev manager to more like 250+ as a pre-sales consultant. They were probs the best paid people in the company save for actual sales leads + management (and some inexplicably well paid developers in NYC).

 

[Furyus]

Regarding the big US companies, yes the figures look really, really attractive but they work you to the bone. I expect I could get an extra 30-50(?)% by moving to AWS, Microsoft or similar, but when I look at my current quality of life versus what I might experience after moving, I'll stay put I think.

Same as pre-sales, it sounds very attractive but in theory I'd be on the road a lot, whereas now I work from where I want to. I can go to an office, I can work from home, I can work from Spain. It doesn't matter, as long as my projects are delivered. With a 4 week old baby, family is my priority now rather than greed.

Definitely, it's about finding that work life balance, before I lost my job I was doing 4on4off @30kpa +OT. But I had no family time at all, with a 9yr old and 3yr old it was really taxing on the family, I've always had an interest in IT more so 1stline sort of work.but being a job that pays well for the last 10years because of financial and family commitments it's really made me get off my **** and get a job in IT that I can actually turn into a career.

 

[Beerbaron]

The cyber security market is nuts at the minute. Demand is massively outstripping supply so its a candidates market

 

[jon86]

Regarding 4 week old baby, family is my priority now rather than greed.

It appears that you're equating wanting to earn more money as greed. I'm sure that you didn't mean for it to come across that way, so I'm wondering what you meant?

The cyber security market is nuts at the minute. Demand is massively outstripping supply so its a candidates market

What do you do for a living, Beerbaron?

 

[OspreyO]

I'm not sure the other system is any easier, especially if you aren't build for a week of work for your own benefit.

Not sure I follow.

 

[OspreyO]

Regarding the big US companies, yes the figures look really, really attractive but they work you to the bone. I expect I could get an extra 30-50(?)% by moving to AWS, Microsoft or similar, but when I look at my current quality of life versus what I might experience after moving, I'll stay put I think.

Same as pre-sales, it sounds very attractive but in theory I'd be on the road a lot, whereas now I work from where I want to. I can go to an office, I can work from home, I can work from Spain. It doesn't matter, as long as my projects are delivered. With a 4 week old baby, family is my priority now rather than greed.

Problem with IT in particular is you either move forward or you're moving backwards. You suddenly realize to stay in your job you need umpteenth certs because they are more important than umpteenth years of experience.

The same with salary it can't stay static. Unless you cut your cloth.

 

[ChrisD.]

It appears that you're equating wanting to earn more money as greed. I'm sure that you didn't mean for it to come across that way, so I'm wondering what you meant?

It means that I already earn very well and have a very good overall package. I could move for more but I like my current job and I think I’d end up just working more or be away from home more often etc.