Customs + Parcelforce.

[spoffle]

I understand where you are coming from but I don't agree the way you done it.

Why not just ask to inspect the item, take it and run without signing while you are at it?

And yet I'm not willing to pay their extortionate handling fees, especially when they have already been paid for their services and even more especially with how arbitrary their handing fees are, where they increase or decrease based on the size of the parcel. How does the size of the parcel have anything to do with collecting handling fees due to them paying customs fees?

On top of that, what does the signing process have to do with anything? I ended up NOT signing for them because they wouldn't let me without paying the handing fees, even though I had the parcel in my hands, and then when I checked the tracking a few weeks later, they'd tried to forge my signature.

 

[Raymond Lin]

And yet I'm not willing to pay their extortionate handling fees, especially when they have already been paid for their services and even more especially with how arbitrary their handing fees are, where they increase or decrease based on the size of the parcel. How does the size of the parcel have anything to do with collecting handling fees due to them paying customs fees?

On top of that, what does the signing process have to do with anything? I ended up NOT signing for them because they wouldn't let me without paying the handing fees, even though I had the parcel in my hands, and then when I checked the tracking a few weeks later, they'd tried to forge my signature.

I ask again, why not ask to inspect the item.

Grab it and run ?

 

[gambitt]

Parcelfraud are a disgrace.

Order items from abroad, total cost is $24. Check the official exchange rate and it's £0.61 to $1. Excellent, total value equals £14.64 which is under the £15 threshold for VAT charges.

A card arrives telling me to pay ~£11 (£3 for VAT and £9 for a Parcelfraud fee). All complaints fall on deaf ears. I print off the exchange rate and take it to the post office proving that the total value is under £15 but they stonewall me.

Apparantly Parcelfraud / HMRC use their "own exhange rate" to calculate import charges which is conveniently higher than the offical one.

 

[spoffle]

And people wonder why they charge so much ... there will be a cost to them for providing the service which they will, as a business, want to pass on to those using the service. So by doing this they now have to recoup the cost to them of clearing your package(s) from everyone else.

Are their charges a lot higher than their cost ... probably but we don't know as we don't know their bottom line cost.

If you don't want to pay it then you should import via a different method and handle the customs clearance yourself.

Except that they had already been paid for rendered services. I had the manager in agreement (reluctantly) with me, due to having not actually sent the parcels myself, I had no contract with Parcel Force directly, thus they couldn't keep my parcels from me regardless of the handling fee being paid or not. Which is how I got them to hand the parcel over the second time.

The issue is, they used to waive the handling fee for people that complained, showing just how arbitrary and profit padding it really was. The cost of them for clearing parcels isn't any different just because customs fees are due, they have agents that work with clearing parcels, ones that don't have any fees due also need to be cleared, so again they have already been paid for their services when the sender initiated the original postage.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Except that they had already been paid for rendered services. I had the manager in agreement (reluctantly) with me, due to having not actually sent the parcels myself, I had no contract with Parcel Force directly, thus they couldn't keep my parcels from me regardless of the handling fee being paid or not. Which is how I got them to hand the parcel over the second time.

The issue is, they used to waive the handling fee for people that complained, showing just how arbitrary and profit padding it really was. The cost of them for clearing parcels isn't any different just because customs fees are due, they have agents that work with clearing parcels, ones that don't have any fees due also need to be cleared, so again they have already been paid for their services when the sender initiated the original postage.

You sound like a PITA, surely sooner or later they will either

A - Know its you and refuse to let you inspect it until you've signed and paid
B - Return item to sender. What are you going to do? Order it again?
C - Black List your address completely

They are just trying to do their job, if you disagree, don't give the guy working at the office grief for your disagreement. Take it higher up the chain to people who make the rules.

 

[spoffle]

Parcelfraud are a disgrace.

Order items from abroad, total cost is $24. Check the official exchange rate and it's £0.61 to $1. Excellent, total value equals £14.64 which is under the £15 threshold for VAT charges.

A card arrives telling me to pay ~£11 (£3 for VAT and £9 for a Parcelfraud fee). All complaints fall on deaf ears. I print off the exchange rate and take it to the post office proving that the total value is under £15 but they stonewall me.

Apparantly Parcelfraud / HMRC use their "own exhange rate" to calculate import charges which is conveniently higher than the offical one.

I was told ALL sorts of lies by the staff in the depot. He changed his story a good few times when I kept letting him know I knew how the process worked.

They told me the handling fee is levied by HMRC, and it has nothing to do with them. He then changed his mind on that when I let him know that HMRC don't actually inspect the parcels, but Parcel Force has staff working as agents to do that.

Then they told me that I need to pay it all, as it's illegal not to pay VAT. He changed his mind when I pointed out that I know they pay it, and that the customer is simply reimbursing them for it.

He told me I couldn't leave the depot with my parcel, and he changed his mind when I said he's hardly going to physically stop me. There was a CCTV camera right next to us as well, which would have caught it all if he'd tried to put his hands on me.

He then told me that he'd call the police, as what I was doing was illegal. He of course changed his mind on that when I reminded him that it was a civil matter, and the police would simply only be able to mediate the situation and not take any actual action on what was happening.

They sent me a letter a few weeks later saying that they're going to tell the police and the border agency on me for not paying. Which I found highly amusing, especially because it was from the manager who I reminded that it's a civil matter.

 

[neil_g]

i thought i read that if it was found that the sender/recipient was clearly trying to deceive customs by marking as "gift" or at a lower value then they were imposing the maximum charge as a deterrent?

or did i dream that?

 

[spoffle]

You sound like a PITA, surely sooner or later they will either

A - Know its you and refuse to let you inspect it until you've signed and paid
B - Return item to sender. What are you going to do? Order it again?
C - Black List your address completely

They are just trying to do their job, if you disagree, don't give the guy working at the office grief for your disagreement. Take it higher up the chain to people who make the rules.

You also sound like a "PITA" with your moaning here.

They tried A, I know my rights and I argued them successfully enough that they handed the parcel over a second time.

They can't do B, as it's against the law for them to interfere with the process of mail getting to its destination for no good reason (and reimbursement of fees isn't one).

They also can't do C because of B.

Sure, they're just trying to do their job, but when they want to start lying about the law and how it works then I'm going to be slightly annoyed and less likely to be willing to give them a break just for doing their job.

Additionally, I stated multiple times that I was willing to reimburse them for the customs fees only, but not the extortionate arbitrary handling fee.

 

[leigh_boy]

iv had car parts imported before, cost was £230 and the delivery was £30 ontop

 

[Amp34]

Haha, people in the Photography forum gives others grief for using some Far East retailer as they often put on inaccurate info on the declaration form, all without asking. I mean how would one supposed to know if they use them for the first time and know if they still does it? You have no control over what they put on the form.

But asking on purpose ! I never !

Exactly. At least you can plead ignorance if it's the other end helping you dodge paying it. Physically asking them to incorrectly label the parcel another step up!

 

[spoffle]

i thought i read that if it was found that the sender/recipient was clearly trying to deceive customs by marking as "gift" or at a lower value then they were imposing the maximum charge as a deterrent?

or did i dream that?

The issue is that they typically can't prove this.

 

[neil_g]

The issue is that they typically can't prove this.

if theyre inspecting packages marked as gift and there is an invoice inside, or they use google to find the actual value of goods etc?

FWIW i have no problem with paying the handling fees, someone has to pay to process the package.

 

[Raymond Lin]

You also sound like a "PITA" with your moaning here.

They tried A, I know my rights and I argued them successfully enough that they handed the parcel over a second time.

They can't do B, as it's against the law for them to interfere with the process of mail getting to its destination for no good reason (and reimbursement of fees isn't one).

They also can't do C because of B.

Sure, they're just trying to do their job, but when they want to start lying about the law and how it works then I'm going to be slightly annoyed and less likely to be willing to give them a break just for doing their job.

Additionally, I stated multiple times that I was willing to reimburse them for the customs fees only, but not the extortionate arbitrary handling fee.

I agree with you about the handling fee but the way you are going about it is just not right.

Its dispicable behaviour really.

And I ask again for the 3rd time.

Why not just grab it and run ? Why make a scene about it in the first place?

 

[spoffle]

if theyre inspecting packages marked as gift and there is an invoice inside, or they use google to find the actual value of goods etc?

FWIW i have no problem with paying the handling fees, someone has to pay to process the package.

What I mean is, it's next to impossible to prove whether the buyer asked for the parcel to be under-declared. There are a lot of companies that do it by default because they know certain countries have customs charges.

As for handling fees, when you understand that the amount you've paid already to ship the package includes the processing of the packages, you'll realise that there isn't any need for these handling fees outside of profit padding.

Because if you think about it, the same process happens with every parcel, except that ones where fees are due, have a sticker slapped on with the amount. That is typically the exception, unless they have to open the parcel. But even then, if they have to open a parcel and there are no fees due, you don't pay anything anyway. So it really is highly arbitrary.

 

[spoffle]

I agree with you about the handling fee but the way you are going about it is just not right.

Its dispicable behaviour really.

And I ask again for the 3rd time.

Why not just grab it and run ? Why make a scene about it in the first place?

If I were working there, I wouldn't hand if over until you pay. What are you going to do? Sue them for it? Call the police ? Physically attack them ?

Because I told them that I was willing to reimburse them for the customs fees.

I had my card, and I was willing to do it, I had it out and I waved it at them, but they said it's the whole amount, or nothing. Which is the point I left, as my contention was that I'm not paying the handling fee.

Staff on the phone simply don't want to know, which means I have to go in to the depot.

As for if you were working there, you couldn't not hand it over, because your actions specifically would be getting in the way of the parcel reaching its destination.

I successfully argued my case with the manager there, who knew the law over parcels, despite his multiple attempts to lie about it to me. So claiming you wouldn't hand it over isn't really good enough, as ultimately you'd have to keep in accordance with the law, which is why the manager conceded and handed me the parcel despite his multiple protests about it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Because I told them that I was willing to reimburse them for the customs fees.

I had my card, and I was willing to do it, I had it out and I waved it at them, but they said it's the whole amount, or nothing. Which is the point I left, as my contention was that I'm not paying the handling fee.

Staff on the phone simply don't want to know, which means I have to go in to the depot.

I hope they get wise and won't hand if over until you pay. What are you going to do? Sue them for it? Call the police? (Civil matter haha)Jump over the counter and physically attack them?

 

[spoffle]

I hope they get wise and won't hand if over until you pay. What are you going to do? Sue them for it? Call the police? (Civil matter haha)Jump over the counter and physically attack them?

Why do you "hope" that they do this?

As for if you were working there, you couldn't not hand it over, because your actions specifically would be getting in the way of the parcel reaching its destination.

I successfully argued my case with the manager there, who knew the law over parcels, despite his multiple attempts to lie about it to me. So claiming you wouldn't hand it over isn't really good enough, as ultimately you'd have to keep in accordance with the law, which is why the manager conceded and handed me the parcel despite his multiple protests about it.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Because I told them that I was willing to reimburse them for the customs fees.

I had my card, and I was willing to do it, I had it out and I waved it at them, but they said it's the whole amount, or nothing. Which is the point I left, as my contention was that I'm not paying the handling fee.

Staff on the phone simply don't want to know, which means I have to go in to the depot.

As for if you were working there, you couldn't not hand it over, because your actions specifically would be getting in the way of the parcel reaching its destination.

I successfully argued my case with the manager there, who knew the law over parcels, despite his multiple attempts to lie about it to me. So claiming you wouldn't hand it over isn't really good enough, as ultimately you'd have to keep in accordance with the law, which is why the manager conceded and handed me the parcel despite his multiple protests about it.

Yeah, but what are you going to do if they stand their ground?

Sue them over not handling over the parcel? Go to the police? See your MP?

Go to the press about not giving you the parcel?

Jeez, seriously, there are more important things in life than arguing about £8 with the guy at the post office !

 

[spoffle]

Yeah, but what are you going to do if they stand their ground?

Sue them over not handling over the parcel? Go to the police? See your MP?

Go to the press about not giving you the parcel?

Jeez, seriously, there are more important things in life than arguing about £8 with the guy at the post office !

Well firstly it's not the post office, secondly it wasn't £8, and thirdly whilst there might be "more important things" who are you to tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing with my time?

It's about the principle, I am not going to bend over and just allow them to do something I am not happy with, hence my protest over it at the time.

Maybe you have no principles, and maybe you don't value your own integrity but I am not you.

And yes, I could go legal over it, which they know they wouldn't win, hence them giving up and handling the parcel over, and they weren't standing their ground, because ultimately I knew my rights, and they knew they couldn't legitimately keep hold of it. You seem to be making an odd fuss, and advocating a company breaking the law, but in another breath are complaining about people who willingly ask companies to mark down parcels which is also illegal.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Love how you are trying to turn the table around and blame it on everyone else and just because you successfully win an argument with the guy at the "post office", parcel force, City Link, Fed Ex, UPS, whatever. It doesn't mean you have "principles".

I say again, I agree about the inflated handling fee but the way you go about it is dispicable.