Cyprus

Ayia Napa was nothing like I expected when I went last September (best time).
Great beaches and not too busy in the evenings - yeah it was a bit clubby, but you can still go out in the evenings without that scene. I was with a mate visiting his Cypriot friends (dad owns a bar in Ayia Napa).

Went east then across the country, Limassol, Nico etc and ended up in Paphos at the end.

I think if you avoid peak season you can hate the club scene but still have a good holiday.
 
G|mp said:
I got attacked out there, I was having a drink with some friends and a Frenchman attacked me in the bar :/

I gave his description to Police who said they knew of the attacker who looked like Pete Sampras and was also a convicted sex monster :/
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He got me too :(
 
manveruppd said:
Just curious what you think makes it more authentic: the fact that you're staying in hotels built on authentically stolen land, or the fact that most of the Turkish Cypriots have actually emigrated to flee the repressive regime they have over there and the majority of the "authentic" population are actually settlers from Turkey?.
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I know this is a serious topic, and one I have discussed at length with Freefaller and others, but that was very funny :D
 
Living in Cyprus for the past 23 years :). Wonderful place to visit for holidays, not so nice living there though. It is a very safe place to live in and you can easily walk practically everywhere, anytime with no fear of being mugged or assaulted.

The best place for vacation in Cyprus used to be Famagusta. Now it is practically a ghost town. It was the place with the best beaches and hotels in Cyprus at that time.

The younger generation simply understands that a political solution will only happen if Turkey wishes so. And if a solution happens it will likely mean that Greek Cypriots will become a minority in their own country.
 
Rotty said:
I am not saying what is right and wrong but there are 2 differing versions of events

This is the Wiki entry from the Turkish point of view

The Turkish Cypriots stated that after their rejection of the constitutional amendments in 1962, they were not only forced out (at gunpoint) of their positions in the government, but were also forced off their land (which at that time was about 31%) and pushed into scattered enclaves (making up only 4%) which was then taken over by Greek Cypriots and Greek Settlers from Greece. Greek Cypriot forces - supported by EOKA and Greek junta military 'advisors' - further pushed this policy. Credence to these historically proven acts of ethnic cleansing can be seen by the 1964 Siege at Erenkoy.


Of course the Greek pov is very different and their claim to sovereignty legally correct, I was just trying to see it from both sides
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Sure, there are always two viewpoints, and in most cases the truth lies somewhere between them. I'm sure that in most cases Turkish-Cypriots abandoned their jobs and homes to flee into the enclaves because they were afraid for their lives. Probably not from their GC colleagues, friends and neighbours, but from armed GC extremists looking for easy targets. Say EOKA B and the TMT shoot each other and some Greek-Cypriot is killed, in an incident completely unconnected to you, and paramilitaries are looking for a target to retaliate against - who are they gonna shoot, someone in the heavily-fortified enclaves, or the TC family living in a quiet little suburban street? It's a small island, it doesn't take more than a few hundred extremists on each side to terrorise the whole country. No doubt in some cases some TCs were forced out (though I really don't know about government employees being forced out of their offices at gunpoint, I've no doubt it could have happened but I haven't heard of any specific accounts).

OTOH, there are also several verified accounts of Turkish-Cypriots being forced out of their homes and into the enclaves by the TMT (the TC paramilitaries). I know it sounds incongruous, but the TMT wanted partition and self-determination, this couldn't be achieved if the population was still geographically intermixed, so it makes sense. Accounts like that mostly surfaced after 2003 - before that the GC media wasn't really allowed to film interviews with TCs on the rare occasions they were allowed into the north, so you can imagine it was pretty hard for dissident TCs to get their voices heard, apart from a tiny handful of prominent activists who had defected before the border was opened.

What's historically verified beyond a doubt is that TC MPs and vice-president left their posts and stopped participating in the government, which was what really sparked the whole TC population retreating into the enclaves. Their leaders were presumably expecting Turkey to intervene militarily.

I think viewing the 1964 Tylliria incident as ethnic cleansing is seriously stretching the boundaries of the truth though. Seriously.

As you say, the law is on our side, and the legality of our standpoint is why I'm pessimistic about the prospect of a real solution: the vast majority of GCs feel that, while we made MANY mistakes and in many cases we did wrong the TCs, we are fundamentally in the right, both legally and morally. However, in practical terms we DID lose a war, and it's unheard of in all of recorded history for a negotiated settlement to favour the party that lost an armed conflict! This should be common sense, but it still rankles and hurts people when they're actually presented with the reality of it. For instance, back in 2004 when people were discussing the Annan plan and they realized that the proposed compensations for people who had lost their properties would come from the coffers of the Cypriot state, they were furious, as they thought (quite reasonably from both a legal and a moral standpoint) that Turkey should cough up for them. And some of them were people with graduate degrees in history and politics, and could understand perfectly well what I meant when I told them "Whoever heard of the victor in a war paying indemnifications to the loser?" But it still rankled for them.

FirebarUK said:
The Greek point-of-view always comes over very strongly in these threads about Cyprus. It's certainly not so clean cut. Very easy to see the bias ;)
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I don't know man, I think the international press was very quick to paint us as the villains and to start moaning about "TC isolation" after 2004. And don't get me started about the Orams! Buying land they KNEW to be stolen and then held up in the Daily Mail as this poor family denied their place in the sun by the oppressive hand of the law! Give me a break, seriously.

Freefaller said:
hehe - clearly that's what I was agreeing with you about ;)

Next time I'm in kypros I'll buy you a Keo :)
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I'll take you up on that if you're down there sometime in July! :)
 
Not there till August this year :( I usually try and visit family more than once a year, but it's just a question of money this year (cleared all my debts yay \o/), and this time August is going to be the only time I'm there!

There will be other times though I'm sure :)
 
It's hilarious, the debates about Cyprus on this forum are indeed biased towards the Greek Cypriots. My father lived through all of the troubles and saw exactly what went on (on both sides). His town was ransacked by the Greek's, the boats sank and the shops looted by the Greek Cypriot police, however, the Turks are also guilty of such things. Let's not forget the terrorist acts that were committed against the British by Greek cypriot terrorists, my grandad was trained by the British to hunt these people down and bring them to justice. There was a section of Ledra street called "murder mile" anyone or anything British could not walk here without being shot by Greek terrorists. Cyprus is not Greek and it's not Turkish, it belongs to the Cypriots. The mainlanders need to keep out, it doesn't belong to them. It's like a wise man once told me "everybody thinks they know a lot about Cyprus". The real people who know about it are the people like my father who saw the troubles and feared on a daily basis for his life. The majority of my dad's friends were Greek Cypriot's and they are great people, we often visit them.

I'm not sticking up for either side but it just winds me up that the truth is not revealed. No body won the war, the island lost it's identity and communities were shattered. My dad is fluent in Greek and Turkish and he is now part of a dying breed simply because of what has happened. Nobody is in the right over this conflict, everybody has lost. The Turkish Cypriot's did not arrive with the mainlanders in '74........my family can trace its roots back to the island for hundreds of years, back to the Italians when they first arrived. I've, in the past, been told by British "friends" that my family is illegally living in the North and that they arrived there illegally in 1974. My grandad was born in 1922 in the North, you do the math. It's this attitude that annoys me, the total misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the truth. Freefaller I'm not arguing with you or looking to argue, we both have Cypriot blood and we all need to look to the future. I could talk about all the bad that the British have done throughout history, colonising countries and treating the locals like animals. Even Cyprus was under British rule, but yet it is my mainly British friends who take digs at me for being a product of this "illegal war". You wanna talk about an illegal war? See what your government has done in Iraq.
 
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For me a Cypriot is a Cypriot. Not a Greek or Turkish mainlander. I know a lot of Turkish Cypriots fluent in Greek and Turkish (and English) - for me they are the true Cypriots - it makes no odds if they are Greek or Turkish - as long as they are Cypriots. Then, I listen to them, give them my time, and my respect. I don't respect or have time for the mainlanders claiming the island as theirs. I think the British have a lot of answer for in terms of Cyprus so I agree with you entirely. :)

Like you, I dont' take sides, I just find it physically saddening seeing such a wonderful country ripped apart, and the history of the lives that the Cypriots (Greek and Turkish alike) shared seems to have been forgotten. The young Cypriots now just get on with it and turn their noses up with contempt towards the Turks, and forget where they've come from , and the mainland Turks just get on with whatever they want, and the poor Turkish Cypriots have no choice but to follow the trend. That's something that does upset me. So I agree entirely with your points. Cyprus is Cypriot - it's independent. However it's identity is so diluted now :(
 
Took the family to Cyprus last year, we stayed in a villa in Peyia which is around a 20 minute drive to Paphos and a 10 minute drive to Coral beach.

Took the kids to a water park which was quite a drive.

Went to see the Tombs of the Kings in Paphos.

Drove to the Troudos mountains but it started raining when we got there. The temp does nose dive so make sure you come prepared which we did not. Went to see a couple of waterfalls in the mountains and just generally walked around.

Took the kids go karting in Paphos, they only take cash by the way and the time apparently starts when you get given the go ahead so put your helmet and shoes on quickly, also remember to take your own trainers else you'll have to put your feet into some old ones that they have.

We were there for 14 days and we'd spend 1 day in the villa or nearest beach and 1 day going out on trips, I'm planning on taking the family back there next year, going back is a bit of a miracle as my family never want to go back to the same place twice but want to visit to Cyprus again.
 
I don't think we disagree on anything, SoSolid. I know that our lot commited some atrocities too, it was war after all, and war brings out the worst in everyone. And I certainly don't dispute the TCs right to be there - on the contrary, I'm lamenting how many of them have gone abroad because it decreases the chances of a solution (especially after we joined the EU, when those of them who could prove they were Cypriot nationals since before 74 could suddenly get themselves EU passports and go wherever they want).

Hell, I don't even agree with our negotiating position that the settlers should leave! I know they don't legally have a right to be there, but certainly all their kids do, as I'm pretty sure our law says that if you're born on Cypriot soil you're entitled to citizenship. So what are you gonna do, pack the parents off to Turkey and leave their kids there? But "settlers out!" is such a popular rallying cry that none of our politicians have the guts to say "Look folks, we're not gonna get this no matter how hard we bargain". Even if we did, how could we expect the other side to accept it with the majority of the population now being settlers?

And I just want to debunk a couple of nationalist myths: the 1931 revolt, in which Greek Cypriots demanded Enosis - you know what sparked that? Not some overwhelming nationalist feeling that was brimming over, but excessive taxation during a Depression! (That's why many Turkish-Cypriots also took part in the revolt.)

And, since you mentioned the "murder mile", you know who was the first person EOKA killed during that revolt? Was it a Brit? Was it a Turk? Hell no, it was a Greek Cypriot! :p
 
I just got back from a week in Coral Bay. I was lucky enough to be with friends who had hired one of those huge private James Villas and we had a hire car as well. I didn't want to come home, we spent the days chilling out in the sunshine and the evenings in the local bars. The staff and locals were all very friendly and there was plenty going on. We're already talking about going back in September. I'd fly back out tomorrow for a few more days given the chance.

Having a car definitely makes a big difference, we discovered little local tavernas serving great traditional food that are off the beaten track and the views when driving up into the mountains are fantastic.
 
@Robbie G: It is an independent island/democracy after all, why would they have a common entry with Greece, if that's what you imply.
 
SoSolid said:
It's hilarious, the debates about Cyprus on this forum are indeed biased towards the Greek Cypriots. My father lived through all of the troubles and saw exactly what went on (on both sides). His town was ransacked by the Greek's, the boats sank and the shops looted by the Greek Cypriot police, however, the Turks are also guilty of such things. Let's not forget the terrorist acts that were committed against the British by Greek cypriot terrorists, my grandad was trained by the British to hunt these people down and bring them to justice. There was a section of Ledra street called "murder mile" anyone or anything British could not walk here without being shot by Greek terrorists. Cyprus is not Greek and it's not Turkish, it belongs to the Cypriots. The mainlanders need to keep out, it doesn't belong to them. It's like a wise man once told me "everybody thinks they know a lot about Cyprus". The real people who know about it are the people like my father who saw the troubles and feared on a daily basis for his life. The majority of my dad's friends were Greek Cypriot's and they are great people, we often visit them.
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any mention of terrorist actions of the British against the local population ? You know cyprus was governed as a colony, no respect for the freewill of the locals , greeks or turkish ethnic origin
 
i was over there recently, went all over the place - visited nicosia and got to go into the green zone with a UN escort, then spent an afternoon on the turkish side. completely different, and as someone said before it is like stepping back in history, its all very arab-mediterranian-ey, and the kebabs are delicious :D
you won't get to go into the green zone, but its really eerie - we were facing east and to our left were several armed turkish soldiers, and on the right the greeks were the same. it was completely silent, but you could feel the unrest, and it is serious, they've got helicopters patrolling all 180km of the line 24/7.

went to paphos too, had a boat cruise that was really cool and relaxing, but didnt think much to paphos itself - EVERYONE we met was english, even the band on the boat :P

went up to troodos in the mountains, and that was like being in a cross between centre parcs and wales, especially in the morning because it was snowing :P

went to a few cypriot restaurants too, i highly recommend the haloumi and sheftalia (?) and the entertainment was good - learnt greek dancing and there was a group with a guy that balanced about 20 glasses on his head haha :D

i really enjoyed the trip, theres so much to do, and its unique compared to other parts of this part of the world :)
have a good holiday! :D
 
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