D600 with full fat AF system!

I wish they'd bloody hurry up and make it official on the D600...it's pretty much certain to be my next camera...mind you, if you don't get one on pre-order you may as well kiss it goodbye for at least 6 months after release. Nikon are terrible at keeping up with demand. Oh and their manufacturing plant being under a few feet of water a number of months back didn't help, I'm sure.
 
Porceliamone said:
I wish they'd bloody hurry up and make it official on the D600...it's pretty much certain to be my next camera...mind you, if you don't get one on pre-order you may as well kiss it goodbye for at least 6 months after release. Nikon are terrible at keeping up with demand. Oh and their manufacturing plant being under a few feet of water a number of months back didn't help, I'm sure.
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I'm not sure one will appear to be honest, same with the supposed canon entry level FF camera also. The nikon one would have to be better than the D700, which isn't easy to do as its autofocus system is great, plus the iso performance isn't exactly lacking by any stretch. I'd rather see a new D300s with a higher mp count, better ISO performance and no AA filter, plus keeping the same framerate, as it would make it the best wildlife camera by a longshot for the money.

The second hand market for the D700 and the 5D mk ii has put the bodies to around £1100 each, which is an absolute bargain. I can't see how a new FF body, below the specs of the 5D mk iii and D800, would be able to compete with those sorts of prices.
 
The D700 is an awesome bit of kit but if we're being realistic it's a good generation or so behind now. I personally still think it costs too much, given its age and the advantages you can get with newer (even DX) models. Make the D7000 full frame and you'd have a worldbeater, which is sort of what the D600 is rumoured to be.

The rumoured specs for the D600 are more than enough to convince me to part with £1500-1800.
 
Porceliamone said:
The D700 is an awesome bit of kit but if we're being realistic it's a good generation or so behind now. I personally still think it costs too much, given its age and the advantages you can get with newer (even DX) models. Make the D7000 full frame and you'd have a worldbeater, which is sort of what the D600 is rumoured to be.

The rumoured specs for the D600 are more than enough to convince me to part with £1500-1800.
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if your pushing nearly 2k for a entry level ff, wouldnt that eat away d3/d800 sales? cant see it happening.

the 5d3/d800 are IMO entry level ff. their will never be a actual entry level ff IMO.

You would need to seriously gimp it in order for the 5d3/d800 not to be effected.

maybe putting a ff sensor on a 650d would be the solution for canon anyway
 
The D800/D800E is more like £2,300-2,600 at the moment. D3(s) sales are a moot point now really as the D4 has taken over. Although the D3s is still one of the best cameras to have ever existed, even with its 'paltry' 12mp!

If the D600 comes in at around £1,500 then it has its place...

...in my kit bag!

Anything over £1,800 and I'd just save for longer to get the D800 (possibly). I hope not, because the frame rate on the D800 is frankly shocking for a camera of that calibre and price point, hence why I don't own one already.
 
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Porceliamone said:
The D800/D800E is more like £2,300-2,600 at the moment.
If the D600 comes in at around £1,500 then it has its place...

...in my kit bag!

Anything over £1,800 and I'd just save for longer to get the D800 (possibly). I hope not because the frame rate on the 800 is frankly shocking for a camera of that calibre, hence why I don't own one right now.
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this^
 
Porceliamone said:
The D700 is an awesome bit of kit but if we're being realistic it's a good generation or so behind now. I personally still think it costs too much, given its age and the advantages you can get with newer (even DX) models. Make the D7000 full frame and you'd have a worldbeater, which is sort of what the D600 is rumoured to be.

The rumoured specs for the D600 are more than enough to convince me to part with £1500-1800.
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What advantages are those then over the D700? You can't get a better crop unless you start looking at the canon 1D mark iv!
 
Porceliamone said:
The D800/D800E is more like £2,300-2,600 at the moment. D3(s) sales are a moot point now really as the D4 has taken over. Although the D3s is still one of the best cameras to have ever existed, even with its 'paltry' 12mp!

If the D600 comes in at around £1,500 then it has its place...

...in my kit bag!

Anything over £1,800 and I'd just save for longer to get the D800 (possibly). I hope not, because the frame rate on the D800 is frankly shocking for a camera of that calibre and price point, hence why I don't own one already.
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I wouldn't buy a D600 at £1500 as you might as well just continue saving for a D800. They'd have to really neuter the D600 to make it attractive over the D700, whilst trying not to harm D800 sales.
 
jonneymendoza said:
if your pushing nearly 2k for a entry level ff, wouldnt that eat away d3/d800 sales? cant see it happening.

the 5d3/d800 are IMO entry level ff. their will never be a actual entry level ff IMO.

You would need to seriously gimp it in order for the 5d3/d800 not to be effected.

maybe putting a ff sensor on a 650d would be the solution for canon anyway
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I cant speak specifically for the Nikon line up, but to me it seems Canon are making room for my FF cameras in their line up.

I say that because the EOS-M system is APS-C, and the 650D swallowed the 60D spec space (9 cross AF points). I think the 60D and 7D successor will be one APS-C camera that sits above the 650D.

Seeing as "even the mirrorless" Canon offering has an APS-C sensor, I would think they would be pushed to offer a pro body camera with the same sensor size.

If you consider the price for the 60D/7D successor could retail for around £1000-1150 there is quite a bit of room in the line up to squeeze something between that and the 5D3. This being another pro body FF camera but without all the bells and whistles of the 5D. Im thinking potentially even, shorter plastic body (60D size), and perhap 7D style AF.
 
cokebottles said:
I cant speak specifically for the Nikon line up, but to me it seems Canon are making room for my FF cameras in their line up.

I say that because the EOS-M system is APS-C, and the 650D swallowed the 60D spec space (9 cross AF points). I think the 60D and 7D successor will be one APS-C camera that sits above the 650D.

Seeing as "even the mirrorless" Canon offering has an APS-C sensor, I would think they would be pushed to offer a pro body camera with the same sensor size.

If you consider the price for the 60D/7D successor could retail for around £1000-1150 there is quite a bit of room in the line up to squeeze something between that and the 5D3. This being another pro body FF camera but without all the bells and whistles of the 5D. Im thinking potentially even, shorter plastic body (60D size), and perhap 7D style AF.
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It would require a brand new sensor though as they can't exactly put the 5D mk ii sensor with the 7D autofocus system as it would be way too close to the 5D mk iii. Can't imagine canon would pour in money into R&D on such a sensor when its inferior to what they currently have.
 
I dont see why it couldn't be the 5D3 sensor. In terms of AF, the 5D3 would still have over 3 times the AF points over an 19 point style system. Im sure they will gimp the entry level FF camera's continuous shooting to 4 fps or less and as I said the body will be smaller and non metal. They will find plenty of other compromises to make. Tbh if they design the specs carefully, it will be a useful camera for a lot of people. Well see....

The D600 and Canon equivalent are both very exciting prospects; I sincerely hope these are not just vaporware (ala D700s/x).
 
cokebottles said:
I dont see why it couldn't be the 5D3 sensor. In terms of AF, the 5D3 would still have over 3 times the AF points over an 19 point style system. Im sure they will gimp the entry level FF camera's continuous shooting to 4 fps or less and as I said the body will be smaller and non metal. They will find plenty of other compromises to make. Tbh if they design the specs carefully, it will be a useful camera for a lot of people. Well see....

The D600 and Canon equivalent are both very exciting prospects; I sincerely hope these are not just vaporware (ala D700s/x).
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As it would massively damage the sales of the 5D mk iii if they used the same sensor, regardless of the AF system. They'll only realistically use the 45 point system from the 7D/1D mk iv or the new 61 point from the 5D mk iii/1Dx as nikon give 51 point autofocus on all bodies above the D300.

You also can't go much smaller in terms of physical body size when using a FF sensor either. From a canon point of view, you can't even limit the stuff on the camera, as the people who develop magic lantern would find a way to enable it all anyway without any real issues, destroying the sales of the new 5D mk iii.

State of the art crops make far more sense from a business point of view as both companies don't have a recent high end crop camera below the professional 1D series upto mark iv, which is still a few thousand to buy, even second hand.

Metal body, 61 point AF, superb ISO performance and 1.6 crop would have an amazing following with wildlife photographers, just as the 7D does.
 
James J said:
Metal body, 61 point AF, superb ISO performance and 1.6 crop would have an amazing following with wildlife photographers, just as the 7D does.
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I take your point, that commercially, that kind of camera is more likely.

My thoughts are based on the sensor size that has gone into the mirrorless cameras. It's believable that they are upping sensor size across the board. APS has even made it into a point and shoot compact body (G1X). There are no downsides to FF (except crop factor, see para below). Canon and Nikon might as well make sensor size the distinction between pro and non-pro bodies imo. This is wishful thinking I know...

re: crop factor
This is where I think Canon missed a tick; the mp count on the 5D3. That camera you describe above is a 5D3 just with a crop sensor for the extra reach. If you cropped the 5D3 sensor to APS-C size you would only get around 8mp - if the 5D was higher resolution they could have incorporated a software crop like Nikon have in some of their cameras (right?) and still be throwing out a reasonable res, thus 2 cameras in one; no need for a top of the line crop body.
 
James J said:
I'm not sure one will appear to be honest, same with the supposed canon entry level FF camera also. The nikon one would have to be better than the D700, which isn't easy to do as its autofocus system is great, plus the iso performance isn't exactly lacking by any stretch. I'd rather see a new D300s with a higher mp count, better ISO performance and no AA filter, plus keeping the same framerate, as it would make it the best wildlife camera by a longshot for the money.

The second hand market for the D700 and the 5D mk ii has put the bodies to around £1100 each, which is an absolute bargain. I can't see how a new FF body, below the specs of the 5D mk iii and D800, would be able to compete with those sorts of prices.
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The D600 is basically guaranteed, Nikon have already released the kit lens for it (24-85, 3.5-4.5VR, reviews show it to be real nice).

Why do you think theD700 (or 5dMKII) will be readily available, I am sure Nikon have already announced production has stopped. There are numerous highly reliable information sources (and of course some unreliable).

The D600 will have a 24MP sensor and an AF system likely to be the same as the D7K in a similar sized body, possibly minus the onboard flash to keep the size down.


An update to the D300s is likely but really, for many people the D7k was an update except for hardcore sports who mostly upgraded to the D700/D3s/D800/D4 or are patiently waiting on a D400. There is a chance the D300 replacement will simply be the FF D600, same price point. This just means those needing pixel density + pro AF without a replacement, except the D800 covers them. A possible D400 would be the 24Mp sensor form the D3200 after further tweaking with the D4/D800 AF, good for sports and wildlife. Just way less rumours or info on such a camera.
 
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