DAC's - how/why?

Spitfir3

Spitfir3

Spitfir3

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Hey guys,

I've been thinking about getting a DAC for my Macbook Pro + KRK Powered RP6 G2 monitor setup but i'm a bit confused about them.

Effectively, they're soundcards right? and vice versa. But how exactly do they improve the sound? Reduce distortion? And is it worth spending £150 on one?

Cheers!
 
All DACs do is turn a digital signal into a line out for feeding into an amp. All on board sound and sound cards have DACs in them but it will often be a cheap part. Also, I believe the electrical interference inside the computer may affect the output.

Essentially, people buy an external DAC to get a better quality line out.

I can't help with the last part, never bought one!
 
While the actual digital to analogue conversion is pretty easily done by chips these days, a good external DAC will have a noticeably better analogue output stage, which is where most of the improvements come from in terms of quality of audio fidelity. Also yes, less noise, although a connection via USB can still introduce ground noise from the computer unless the input is galvanically isolated (which is why people buy USB to s/pdif converters - or you can use optical toslink on your Mac from the headphone/digital out, which is cheaper!).

External DACs also offer superior connectivity options between several devices in addition to your computer. For monitors you can get true balanced output via XLR cables which are better than regular speaker cable, as well as balanced output to headphone amps and headphones if you run a balanced rig. It can also have a pre-amp section with more advanced digital volume control (if they have them) or analogue, depending, which in the case of monitors is nicer than having to adjust the input trims on them individually.

You see them all the time in pro audio so it's not just 'an audiophile thing' - ones from Benchmark, Lavry, Violectric, Mytek etc.
 
As already stated, your kit already has a DAC built in. In "theory", the better external ones have improve power supplies and analogue output stages.
Note however that you tend to need to have a pretty good amp/speaker combination to really take advantage of them.
No idea about the kit you already have, so won't comment on whether there might be an improvement.

Additionally, £150 is not a lot of dosh in DAC terms. If you're thinking of improving music playback, go do some research and listen to some decent systems in a few dealers, to get a feel for whether it's making the effort and paying the cost, or not.
 
Those KRKs are budget monitors. I wouldn't buy a DAC that was more than a pair of them tbh. Also when it comes to speakers, particularly if you're playing at volume, some basic room treatment (specific to your room's problems - and there's rarely a room that doesn't have a problem) is good and worth investing some of your budget in over just buying continually better equipment (which you will, because audio is terrible for upgraditis).

I think the 10% of your budget on cables thing is a load of tosh, but when it comes to source/amplification/headphones, a more even spread is probably preferable. With speakers it's only true up to a point as the speakers themselves go up in price far beyond what I believe the current highest end DACs are sold for (which are newer designs sold for much less than some of the traditional silly-money DACs you see in What Hifi etc). My speakers are a bit more than last DAC I had, although the new one I'm getting are about the same price - although I'm replacing these speakers with a high-end DIY effort lol - it never ends.
 
Cheers guys :)

Okay, well I think i'll have to go and try one out - it seems like the only way!

I think the problem i'm having is that they sound so good already, would something make them sound a lot better?

Also, my friend said they 'colour the sound' and he seemed to suggest that it EQs it?
 
What hardware can you put in a mac - pci or pcie?

When i researched into buying a dac, there was a massive thread on avforums about how the xonar essense soundcards have a better built in dac than some very expensive dacs.

I went with the ST model as it was slightly better than the STX and fits in my computer easier
 
Guest2 said:
What hardware can you put in a mac - pci or pcie?

When i researched into buying a dac, there was a massive thread on avforums about how the xonar essense soundcards have a better built in dac than some very expensive dacs.

I went with the ST model as it was slightly better than the STX and fits in my computer easier
Click to expand...

It's a laptop so i'm limited to USB/Firewire or erm 3.5mm? I've seen a red light come out of it though so I assume it's got optical out :p
 
Yes, the headphone out of the Macs doubles as a mini-jack to optical toslink output. This then goes into the optical connection of a DAC. You can also use a USB to s/pdif converter for the coaxial input or just USB, but it depends on the inputs the DAC has and whether they have all been made to the same quality. They'll all pass the bit-perfect test but if you move your mouse and hear it create noise through your speakers when using a USB connection...

As said, the actual DAC chip used isn't as important as how it's implemented, a DAC is primarily an analogue device, which is why you can see the same chip in 10 different DACs across large price ranges and they won't all sound the same. As for sound quality improvements... if you look at somewhere like Gear$lutz, who are well and truly against audiophile silliness, the majority of experienced posters will tell you that no1) however good the chips are these days, no DAC is 100% transparent and it's a case of how far you want to chase diminishing returns to get something that's as clean and true as possible, and 2) it's not worth putting down 3 figures for a Benchmark or Lavry when you haven't even got decent speakers or done anything about your room acoustics, so don't get sucked in. I'm not a massive headphone guy but in the same vein, I wouldn't even be looking at fancy DACs unless I had highly resolving headphones like the HD800s or Stax or something (and the appropriate amplification to drive them fully).
 
Somnambulist said:
Yes, the headphone out of the Macs doubles as a mini-jack to optical toslink output. This then goes into the optical connection of a DAC. You can also use a USB to s/pdif converter for the coaxial input or just USB, but it depends on the inputs the DAC has and whether they have all been made to the same quality. They'll all pass the bit-perfect test but if you move your mouse and hear it create noise through your speakers when using a USB connection...

As said, the actual DAC chip used isn't as important as how it's implemented, a DAC is primarily an analogue device, which is why you can see the same chip in 10 different DACs across large price ranges and they won't all sound the same. As for sound quality improvements... if you look at somewhere like Gear$lutz, who are well and truly against audiophile silliness, the majority of experienced posters will tell you that no1) however good the chips are these days, no DAC is 100% transparent and it's a case of how far you want to chase diminishing returns to get something that's as clean and true as possible, and 2) it's not worth putting down 3 figures for a Benchmark or Lavry when you haven't even got decent speakers or done anything about your room acoustics, so don't get sucked in. I'm not a massive headphone guy but in the same vein, I wouldn't even be looking at fancy DACs unless I had highly resolving headphones like the HD800s or Stax or something (and the appropriate amplification to drive them fully).
Click to expand...

Ah okay that makes sense.

Well I don't want to spend anymore than £150 really. My KRK's were around £370 for the pair IIRC. Yeah my friend is a producer actually, he seems to know a bit about it and had the same opinions.

Could you recommend anything? My friends who are into production told me to look at a Saffire 6 but as I don't really need that many inputs/outputs it would seem a bit pointless. I also saw a review where the review said it sounded 'clinical' - I suppose that's the aim for producers?

Oh and they're sitting on a pair of isolation pads - I remember that help them sound a lot better.
 
I'm currently looking at getting a DAC my short list is:
Matrix Cube
Matrix mini I
Aune X1
Of those the a1 is £160 the others a little more
 
sHo0sH said:
I'm currently looking at getting a DAC my short list is:
Matrix Cube
Matrix mini I
Aune X1
Of those the a1 is £160 the others a little more
Click to expand...

The Aune X1 looks rather good - few nice reviews and I found it for ~ £100 on a well known auction site.

It says its got a preamp, would that affect my speakers which have amps in them already? The volume control knob would be excellent as it's a pain to change the gain on my Rokits and the volume control on my mac doesn't give much flexibility.

Also, I wonder how that compares to the Dacmagic 100?
 
Remember the sub £100 is plus delivery and plus import taxes, it will be about 2 weeks and a similar cost, the £159 price is for a unit that is already in this country with VAT paid.

It would not affect your speakers at all, just give them a cleaner sound to amplify.

No idea how it compares with the DACmagic, for that check headfi
 
So I got an Aune X1.. impressed by the thing, nice solid construction. I'm waiting on some RCA cables from ebay at the mo so i've only tested it with my Senn HD555s...... and i've noticed absolutely no difference whatsoever, is this because they're rather cheap? Need burn in time?
 
If you think your sound is great from a PC and you've not got a DAC you need your definition of 'great' looking at ;)
 
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