what calling it how it is, is insults?
evedince backs up my position, your thoughts are backwards, they do cause more suffering and crime.
you and a lot in here cant accept it, and hide behind nonsense when in fact all you have is revenge.
Poll: Death Penalty - Yay or Nay
- Thread starter Sliver
- Start date
what calling it how it is, is insults?
evedince backs up my position, your thoughts are backwards, they do cause more suffering and crime.
you and a lot in here cant accept it, and hide behind nonsense when in fact all you have is revenge.
Man of Honour
Oh I do accept it more than you know.
If a human can't respect life then they don't deserve to live, that is not revenge but call it what you will.
Caporegime
Man of Honour
Absolutely hilarious.
No to the death penalty.
Absolutely hilarious
.I can't understand how a human can think it's OK for somebody to murder and basically let them off.
oh look hiding behind more straw men, whos letting anyone off.
take your other silly moan, how is a 21 year sentence until a parole hearing and can absolutely die in prison, letting them off?
All these posts show one thing, you clearly have nothing, no reason to feel the way you do, no evidence to back it up nothing. its emotional rubbish for revenge. not what's god for society. to the point where you wholesale ignore evidence, that clearly shows we could massively reduce crime and suffering.
but no, you would rather keep crime rate and suffering high, for your feeling to be satisfied. you have the gift of logic, try using it, rather than trying to trick it. you can override these emotional feelings if you want, its not hard(unless you are directly involved, but that's why victims don't decide punishment).
take your other silly moan, how is a 21 year sentence until a parole hearing and can absolutely die in prison, letting them off?
All these posts show one thing, you clearly have nothing, no reason to feel the way you do, no evidence to back it up nothing. its emotional rubbish for revenge. not what's god for society. to the point where you wholesale ignore evidence, that clearly shows we could massively reduce crime and suffering.
but no, you would rather keep crime rate and suffering high, for your feeling to be satisfied. you have the gift of logic, try using it, rather than trying to trick it. you can override these emotional feelings if you want, its not hard(unless you are directly involved, but that's why victims don't decide punishment).
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Caporegime
Absolutely hilarious
I can't understand how a human can think it's OK for somebody to murder and basically let them off.
Have I been imagining prisons this entire time?
Man of Honour
Not the type of prisons I would have, yours are made of fluffy clouds and unicorns.
Caporegime
Err ok,
... delusional and irrational, as much of the pathetic argument is for the death penalty.
Soldato
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Its not so much what your saying, its how your saying it, calling people backwards, intolerant etc.
You have your opinion, we have ours, instead of bulldozing in and saying that your viewpoint's best, ours is wrong, and here's some evidence backing your viewpoint ergo we have no right to have an opinion why not provide your evidence, state your point that (in this case) that rehabilitation does work for norway, and that perhaps there's a lesson to learn there.
Funny you call our viewpoints backwards, but looking back isnt nessecarily a bad thing, in the 1930's the borstal system was remarkably similar to modern norwegian prisons, even trying to provide role models and inspirations, letting people out to learn a trade from local craftsmen etc. yet between then and now its plain that something in the english national psyche has managed to corrupt these ideals.
Regardless, the question of reform is a different thread, this is about capital punishment which for the "unreformable" handful, is something that some people think is a good idea.
its not opinion though, go look at the evidence.
your thinking is backwards, you know believing something despite the evidence.
how is capital punishment not reform. you guys really are delusional, saying anything you can to defend and untenable position.
the evidence out their in clear sight, go look it up. there's an absolute mountain on human behaviour as well as rehabilitation, how to reduce crime in the first place. look at countries with sensible drug policy, sensible prostitution policy etc.
in a fair and rehabilitation focused system, you cant have death penalty, you will kill innocent people etc, so your argument still doesn't hold any weight.
your thinking is backwards, you know believing something despite the evidence.
how is capital punishment not reform. you guys really are delusional, saying anything you can to defend and untenable position.
the evidence out their in clear sight, go look it up. there's an absolute mountain on human behaviour as well as rehabilitation, how to reduce crime in the first place. look at countries with sensible drug policy, sensible prostitution policy etc.
in a fair and rehabilitation focused system, you cant have death penalty, you will kill innocent people etc, so your argument still doesn't hold any weight.
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Norway is by no means sweetness and light.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Norway
They may have been able to maintain a primarily restorative penal system in the past because of the nature of their demographics and culture.
However these are changing rapidly for the worse and the restorative ideology may well become utterly unsustainable in the very near future.
(Ironically, Exactly what Breivic was concerned about and led to his plan to assassinate the Norwegian Labour party which he blamed for driving these changes to, what he belived to be, the detriment of the country as a whole)
revenge, vengeance has been brought up quite a lot and I guess I don't see it that way.
I don't want the death penalty for everything from shoplifting to murder and even accept there are different levels of murder, crimes of passion, revenge. anger, profit are crimes I understand reasons for, even the killers of lee rigby believed they were killing for a cause.
then there are the special cases like brady, Hindley, Sutcliffe, Huntley, Nilsen who killed tortured for what can only be described as there own amusement and my opinion is the world is a much better place without the likes of them
I don't want the death penalty for everything from shoplifting to murder and even accept there are different levels of murder, crimes of passion, revenge. anger, profit are crimes I understand reasons for, even the killers of lee rigby believed they were killing for a cause.
then there are the special cases like brady, Hindley, Sutcliffe, Huntley, Nilsen who killed tortured for what can only be described as there own amusement and my opinion is the world is a much better place without the likes of them
Caporegime
People that commit terrible crimes, are largely, never allowed back in to society and are incarcerated for the rest of their life
, people act as if being incarcerated is like staying in a hotel, or that people will be released .Killing people as a punishment, makes society no better than the people they execute.
Soldato
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There go the insults again, at least this time you opened with some worthwhile documentation.
You have your viewpoint, fine, but if you want to change ours then your going about it the wrong way swanning in like the font of all knowledge, insulting everyone and following it up by not bothering to respond to points others have made other than to poo poo them.
And with that i'm done with this portion of the argument until it settles back down into a more civil debate.
Soldato
Like the Philippines? But I thought you are against the death penalty?
Man of Honour
It is an opinion though.
You keep harking on and on and on and on about the evidence, we yes voters know the evidence, we are not disagreeing with the evidence, it's just that we have a different opinion.
It's like a person believes that Man Utd are the best team in the country but you keep bringing evidence that Liverpool have won the most leagues/trophies/positions on a point to point basis, it really doesn't matter because that persons opinion will still think Man Utd are the best.
I really don't care about the evidence against revenge capital punishment, I believe we still have a long way to go but your fluffy unicorn prison sentences don't seem to be working either (except in Norway for a bit).
Soldato
Absolutely hilarious
I can't understand how a human can think it's OK for somebody to murder and basically let them off.
But by your logic it is then OK for the state to sanction murder of them?
Definitely don't agree with you. You can't give someone the same punishment as the crime they've committed.
And they don't get let off. They get cut off from everything they knew - their homes, their families, their jobs, their possessions etc. Any prison sentence is not an easy one, and life certainly isn't.
If I had committed a heinous crime, after guilt and remorse, I'd be most concerned about my loss of liberty, which is what prison does.
well if you aren't ignoring it, explain your quote and response to Breivik, or the letting them off post.
while you at it if you aren't ignoring the evidence, then accept that you are advocating for increased crime and suffering.
so no, it certainly does not look like you are accepting the evidence.
and no it is nothing like a football league.
the evidence is out their if you care, again in many aspects. All points to one direction, and that's the opposite of your stance, hence your stance can only be described as backwards.
while you at it if you aren't ignoring the evidence, then accept that you are advocating for increased crime and suffering.
so no, it certainly does not look like you are accepting the evidence.
and no it is nothing like a football league.
the evidence is out their if you care, again in many aspects. All points to one direction, and that's the opposite of your stance, hence your stance can only be described as backwards.
Man of Honour
I changed my stance quite a few posts back, I now want them incarcerated for LIFE in solitary with no human contact or any toys in their cells.
I think that would be worse than death.
21 years for 77 lives and I bet he is living in comfort, 3 meals a day, TV and everything else.
If you think that's OK then I really don't know what to say.
But evidence shows he will come out and be rehabilitated.
its not 21 years, 21 years then a parole hearing, where if he's deemed at risk he goes back to prison for 5 years, then a another hearing, rinse and repeat. he can and probably will die behind bars.
and if you think treating them like that is ok, then you are a psychopath. lose of freedom is a huge thing on i's own.
again look at the evidence of what conditions you are asking for achieve, nothing apart from more guard injuries and death. less rehabilitation etc. remember these like handful of people aren't the only ones in prison.
and if you think treating them like that is ok, then you are a psychopath. lose of freedom is a huge thing on i's own.
again look at the evidence of what conditions you are asking for achieve, nothing apart from more guard injuries and death. less rehabilitation etc. remember these like handful of people aren't the only ones in prison.
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