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Debating A8/A10 APU…

I love my A3870k, runs sweet as a nut in my HTPC coupled with a silent 6670(DDR5) not the cheap ddr3 version :) an excellent BUDGET system, but as Marine has already pointed out I am stuck with regards to future CPU/APU upgrades that is the only flaw. :(
 
But the IGP of the A8 doesn't match upto a 6670.
In any game a Pentium with 6670 will wipe the floor with the A8.
Sure, for HTPC you won't notice anything, but then why get lesser performance in the other things?
 
sexyhyde said:
*facepalm* you're once again, taking benchmarks OUT OF CONTEXT. the benchmarks were ran with a 7970, a card they state

making the onboard gpu on the llano redundant, omits it's strongest point. yes we can see how the CPU portion compares with intel and AMDs other chips by running them with a 7970 but don't go using them stats to prove a point about the whole chip. It's misleading and false.
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It's not out of context at all if you actually BOTHER to interpret what those results mean (or at least learn to). Lower frame rate when using the same graphic card but different CPU means even when using a lesser card (i.e. 6850), by lower graphic settings to try to get better performance/frame rate, the 3870K will hold back the graphic much sooner than the Pentium and would deliver lower frame rate. If you don't understand what I mean by this, then I don't think you are in the position to defend the Llano at all. There's a difference between able to do 30-50fps on by dropping from max down to medium/high settings and only doing 20-40fps regardless of the graphic settings being lowered.
 
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The Deuce said:
I fail to see what point you are trying to make here:confused: surely that isn't in the OP and it was to keep costs down.
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You clearly are failing to understand.
You said AMD recomend putting the A8 with X GPU. Assuming 6670, an A8 with 6670 is pretty close to the price of an SB Dual core and 7770. I was following that train of thought.


The Deuce said:
complete diatribe
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No it's not.

Unless you think the 6550D in the A8 can outrun the higher end GPU?
 
Marine-RX179 said:
It's not out of context at all if you actually BOTHER to interpret what those results mean (or at least learn to). Lower frame rate when using the same graphic card when using different CPU means even when using a lesser card (i.e. 6850), by lower graphic settings to try to get better performance/frame rate, the 3870K will hold back the graphic much sooner than the Pentium and would deliver lower frame rate. If you don't understand what I mean by this, then I don't think you are in the position to defend the Llano at all.
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I know what it means. I understand what it says. but the tests only show CPU performance. the bottlenecking that the cpu may produce wont really arise in the situation it's going to be used. The A3870K isn't meant to go with a 7970 or even a 6850, it's meant to be used on it's own or with a 6450, 6570 or 6670 when you way up each of these scenarios with equal costing intel setups the llano normally wins outright. all im saying is a £40 intel chip and £20 graphics card just isnt going to beat a llano. and splitting £110 over an intel and graphics card isn't going to beat a llano and 6670. the benchmarks show the limits of the chip but you then need to put them into context of the use they will actually be used and way it up with factors that the benchmarks you posted don't take into consideration. you used a set of one sided benchmarks out of context.

the OP has a very old CPU and graphics so it's likely he wants a simple setup, one off cost, no faff upgrade. and cheap. Llano ticks them boxes.
 
You can get an Intel and B-grade 6850 on this site for 110, that'll best a 6670 and A8 easily.

Or a G530 and 7750 (brand new) for 118 delivered.
Or a GTS450 and G530 for just under 100 delivered.

Which is my problem with Llano, it's a great concept, but there are other options that give better performance.
 
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Unless I'm being stupid, all you've done is prove my point? Which if you meant to, then cheers, I didn't even look at benchmarks, I literally pulled it out of thin air because I knew what's what :p
In every gaming situation the G620 and 6670 bested the A8 6550D even when overclocked.
 
Martini1991 said:
You can get an Intel and B-grade 6850 on this site for 110, that'll best a 6670 and A8 easily.

Or a G530 and 7750 (brand new) for 118 delivered.
Or a GTS450 and G530 for just under 100 delivered.

Which is my problem with Llano, it's a great concept, but there are other options that give better performance.
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yeah but you need a mobo too. What im trying to say is for £120 you can get a llano and a mobo and have a perfectly good budget gaming system which you could later add a graphics card to IF you wanted. this is as cheap as you can go. yeah if you spend more money you can get more performance but thats true all the way up to top end. stop treating budget/secondary media/gaming systems like a main rig. the more expensive intel, mobo, gfx isn't a million miles better, bang for buck it's worse in most situations.
 
But you can get an Intel G530 for 35 quid, and an entry level board for about 35, leaving 50 for a GPU (6670).
That too is a perfectly good budget system, but with an upgrade path of upto the i7 3770, while also at the same time and same budget playing games better than the A8 can.

Colour me confused.

I've recently build some entry systems on H61 boards, they can be put with any 1155 CPU and then just get a decent GPU for them.
So you can turn an entry level system into a decently power system later on without removing the entry level board.

Llano has no upgrade path, Trinity is FM2 as far as I'm aware?


I only mentioned those combinations as you said ;

and splitting £110 over an intel and graphics card isn't going to beat a llano and 6670
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You mentioned only those 2 parts and 110 pound.

Your prior point made no sense either regarding the 40 quid Intel CPU and 20 quid graphics card won't best the Llano, almost as if you only need the one component.
 
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Martini1991 said:
In any game a Pentium with 6670 will wipe the floor with the A8.
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the 3870K/6550D performs pretty closely to the intel/6670 then take into consideration the price difference between then and know. the 3870k is now available for about 60% its tested price. adjust this into their review.
 
By wipe the floor, I meant consistently wins, which it does.
Also, the 6670 is EOL, to be replaced with the 7670, only improves the performance of the Intel & X670 performance at a similar budget.

EDIT : We're just going round in circles now, I give up.

Also, by equal point, debating the A8's kinda moot now too, with Trinity due soon, but expect a higher price point.
 
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Martini1991 said:
Your prior point made no sense either regarding the 40 quid Intel CPU and 20 quid graphics card won't best the Llano, almost as if you only need the one component.
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with prices, i can't really go into detail without breaking some forum rules, but if you do some math and think about it, it should make sense. llano = usable on own. cheap intel chip needs gpu.

like i said i dont think a pc that in this day and age is a pentium 4 and x850 if it does get upgraded it's not likely to be upgraded yearly from now on. its a second/media pc.
 
Cheap Intel doesn't need a GPU, they have an IGP too (Llano's is better, and Trinitys increases that gap)
But this is news to me, I didn't know Llano didn't need a motherboard/RAM etc ;)
 
The argument here is defining the boundries between a htpc, a htpc + casual gaming and a budget gaming pc and something thats been forgotten ( the native resolution you need to game at). Ie 6670 ddr3/5 and 1080p isn't going to be great for gaming.

Llano was a lovely concept but its at its best as a mobile architecture although its forgotten than it can offer a 5-7% ipc increase over phenom II clock for clock. If they had kept a deal going with apple then Llano could have made Amd a lot of money which they needed. Still onwards and upwards with Trinity, well maybe if we ever see it.

Now for me I'd rather have a Llano x4 for use as a htpc machine, Encoding blurays + tasks+ K10stat are my priority. If you're htpc is just a playback device then a g530 will be fine, I know my grandad has one.

If I was more driven more by casual gaming then socket 1155 g2120/ g8** and a 6670/7770 or 6850 for 1080p
 
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sexyhyde said:
I know what it means. I understand what it says. but the tests only show CPU performance. the bottlenecking that the cpu may produce wont really arise in the situation it's going to be used. The A3870K isn't meant to go with a 7970 or even a 6850, it's meant to be used on it's own or with a 6450, 6570 or 6670 when you way up each of these scenarios with equal costing intel setups the llano normally wins outright. all im saying is a £40 intel chip and £20 graphics card just isnt going to beat a llano. and splitting £110 over an intel and graphics card isn't going to beat a llano and 6670. the benchmarks show the limits of the chip but you then need to put them into context of the use they will actually be used and way it up with factors that the benchmarks you posted don't take into consideration. you used a set of one sided benchmarks out of context.

the OP has a very old CPU and graphics so it's likely he wants a simple setup, one off cost, no faff upgrade. and cheap. Llano ticks them boxes.
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So what you are saying, it is better to choose an option that's:
a) cost around the same (something wrong with how you working out the cost- G540 or G840 £40 or £50+ 6670 £50= £90/£100; 3870K alone=£90)
b) lesser performance for what the OP use it for
c) limitation when/if used with faster graphic card (I don't see how "it is not suppose to be used with 6850 or above" a valid argument)
d) much worse future upgrade path

There's is some serious logic fail here to recommend the 3870K over the Intel+6670 combo. And before you go on and bang about the price of motherboard, the A75 boards are no cheaper than the H61 boards.
 
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