Degree Apprenticeship (Digital Technology Solutions Bsc) or University (Computer Science Bsc)

[E12345]

Hi all,

I'm currently in year 13 and have submitted my UCAS application to universities. As a backup, I applied to many different degree apprenticeship programs in Digital and Technology Solutions. I have applied for a Computer Science Bsc at each of the universities, one such university being UCL. I've read through the thread on here from 2015 but as that was 9 years ago, I was wondering whether things may have changed. I'm 99% sure I want to have a future in Tech.

I have received one offer from a company which has a partnership with Exeter University. I've been unsure whether to go down the degree apprenticeship path or the traditional university route. Here are what I think are some of the advantages of either:

Advantages of a Degree Apprenticeship
No student debt (not too big of a problem for me as parents said they will pay but still nice)
A good salary
4 years work experience
A Russell Group degree
A potential job at the end of the 4 years
Good employer name on CV

Advantages of University + Comp Sci Degree
A better degree
Wider career options (as it is not specialised. Also many jobs may prefer someone with a Comp Sci degree?)
Better Uni name on CV
Better social life
Jobs overseas? (I know this is far fetched but some countries value degrees very highly)


The main thing I am worried about is whether not having a Comp Sci degree will limit the available jobs and salary in the long run. I'd really appreicate any advice and opinions! Please let me know if there is any information missing. Thanks!

 

[Jae-So]

I would go for the one with no debt personally.
I did a Computer Science degree but if I had that apprenticeship option that would be a no brainer.
Especially with work experience to go with it.

 

[dowie]

The main thing I am worried about is whether not having a Comp Sci degree will limit the available jobs and salary in the long run. I'd really appreicate any advice and opinions!

It will do to some extent, or rather not having an academic degree may. High-paying jobs or opportunities for further study that are open to CS degree holders are usually also open to people with degrees in maths, physics, engineering etc.

An academic degree (assuming a 1st or 2:1) from a top university is more valuable (at least at the moment), the better the uni ranking the better shot you have at lucrative careers in consulting, finance, big tech etc.

 

[NickK]

I’m 50, spent my entire life in software after doing a 4 year software engineering degree with a year out in industry. I partied like it was my last evening on earth through university- both my parents as teachers had to pay for my university. I left with 42p (yes 42) in the bank and a 2:2 (well that’s what happens when you revise way too late and go to one lecture a week in the final year).

I would suspect maths with computation or quantum physics may be better.

Computers, and programming is really a simple process, and the simple stuff is pushed offshore to lower cost areas of the world.
Learning in industry is good, you learn what is valuable now and as long as you climb then you will be ahead of graduates by the time they come out of uni. However my course did open my mind to new things, and 70% of them are relevant.. I learnt more in industry overall by challenging myself.

Yes companies still take grads. Could I have got the money earlier? Possibly but university also breaks you away and gives you a new set of friends. People on my course are distributed globally across the planet with many experiences and a wide range of success.

I would say that both paths offer different things.

 

[Rroff]

My advice, just speaking broadly, would be to go for the one which has the most longest standing recognition for the qualification and most recognised in the industry. I did a load of stuff, vocational qualifications and degree "equivalents", which were all the rage and being pushed by careers advisors (probably taking backhanders) in the late 90s and these days most employers look at them and go "uh what is one of those then?".

 

[mid_gen]

The debt side is a bit of a non-issue as if you go into tech it'll be very easy to off a student loan quite quickly, even better if your parents are covering it though.

Personally, I would go for the degree for a few of reasons.

1) Computer science is the fundamentals behind everything in tech, including AI. Understanding those elements gives you a solid foundation for everything in tech.

2) A degree is extremely valuable for international mobility, i.e. Work visas (particularly since Brexit). Tech opens doors to living abroad in cool places.

3) University is a great time. If you can do it with no debt, awesome.

You would undoubtedly end up earning more, faster if you did an apprenticeship.... But equally, if you're good and land a good graduate position after your degree, you'll be quids in anyway.

 

[Nitefly]

The ‘no debt’ option is very attractive in this day and age, but also you’re keeping your options open with a degree.

Most people don’t end up doing what they think they will be doing at a young age. You only tend to find out what you like by identifying what you don’t like. I make absolutely no use of my biology degree… but I did need a degree to pursue the career that I’m on.

Therefore I think the degree is the way forward - for now. But it’s up to you. If you really, really don’t like like the idea of the university route, that’s also ok.

 

[mid_gen]

The debt side is a bit of a non-issue as if you go into tech it'll be very easy to off a student loan quite quickly, even better if your parents are covering it though.

Personally, I would go for the degree for a few of reasons.

1) Computer science is the fundamentals behind everything in tech, including AI. Understanding those elements gives you a solid foundation for everything in tech.

2) A degree is extremely valuable for international mobility, i.e. Work visas (particularly since Brexit). Tech opens doors to living abroad in cool places.

3) University is a great time. If you can do it with no debt, awesome.

You would undoubtedly end up earning more, faster if you did an apprenticeship.... But equally, if you're good and land a good graduate position after your degree, you'll be quids in anyway.

I should caveat this by saying that I don't actually know what a degree apprenticeship is, do you get a bachelor of science from it?

Even so..... debt free university is hard to not recommend. If you were having to ladle up on debt to do it, degrees are much less attractive these days.....although I'd still recommend it as someone that's lived abroad extensively, I wouldn't give that up for anything.

 

[NickK]

One thing in a software degree is you will have options to specialise.

CyberSecurity is always going to something but it takes a very particular character to love doing it. I appreciate it but I know the default negative approach taken by most cybersecurity to reduce risk really annoys me personally. I’m more of a yes and find a way person..

 

[Kenai]

I should caveat this by saying that I don't actually know what a degree apprenticeship is, do you get a bachelor of science from it?

The University of Exeter’s Digital and Technology Solutions (DTS) Degree Apprenticeship enables students to gain a Level 6 professional qualification and BSc in Digital and Technology Solutions while working with an employer full-time.

AFAIK, the point of a degree apprenticeship is that you still get a degree but it's a different pathway to get it. You're (typically, I think) doing what would normally be a 3 year degree as a part time 4 year course alongside structured work based learning.

There's still a discussion over whether a Comp Sci degree would be better than a 'Digital and Technology Solutions' degree but either route still results in you having a BSc at the end of it, not some weird forgotten qualification that no one will understand in 20 years time.

 

[NickK]

AFAIK, the point of a degree apprenticeship is that you still get a degree but it's a different pathway to get it. You're (typically, I think) doing what would normally be a 3 year degree as a part time 4 year course alongside structured work based learning.

There's still a discussion over whether a Comp Sci degree would be better than a 'Digital and Technology Solutions' degree but either route still results in you having a BSc at the end of it, not some weird forgotten qualification that no one will understand in 20 years time.

My course was Software Engineering (way back 92-96) had things like Yourdon and formal specification (formal set theory mathematics). Both I have never used but it expanded my mind to the concepts and those are applicable across a wide range of concepts. I specialised in numerical computation and distributed networks - both very relevant in their day but relevant today with AI and cloud but contain aspects you’re not likely to see unless you're looking bits and network parts way down the OSI model.

A comp sci degree will have doors into AI and modern ideas.. it would still be my preferred option, however the learning doesn’t stop with the degree but continues through life.. both formally and through changing roles.

The concern with industry learning is you learn a tool.. but quite often not the principles behind it.

 

[swillsy]

You'd be better off financially on the Apprenticeship Degree Course if you can stick it out - companies are probably pushing Apprenticeships more now than degrees to get some of the subsidy back - but you'll have no enormous debt and 3-4 years of work experience where as the grads don't and are banking on getting on a small number of decent grad programs.

However you need to understand that you are giving up having a great time at uni for a few years and need to be cool with that (and your mates telling you all about it). Personally money isn't everything so in your situation, I would do a gap year and then decide in another year before signing up to massive debt + interest as there is no rush.

 

[dowie]

You'd be better off financially on the Apprenticeship Degree Course if you can stick it out

That isn't necessarily true - if he gets into a good university he could still be more likely to be better off financially thanks to the jobs and other opportunities that he'd have a better shot at.

 

[Kenai]

That isn't necessarily true - if he gets into a good university he could still be more likely to be better off financially thanks to the jobs and other opportunities that he'd have a better shot at.

How are you defining 'a good university'? Current performance? Historical reputation?

You'd surely be talking Oxbridge type levels of prestige to make a significant difference to career prospects vs a russell group university?

 

[dowie]

How are you defining 'a good university'? Current performance? Historical reputation?

You'd surely be talking Oxbridge type levels of prestige to make a significant difference to career prospects vs a russell group university?

See the OP BSc Computer Science at UCL vs BSc Digital and Technology Solutions at Exeter.

Oxbridge is valuable for sure (and that applies to any subject there) but also an academic STEM degree from a good London uni, Warwick etc.. can make a significant difference to career prospects vs a vocational degree from a not as highly ranked one.

 

[Kenai]

See the OP - Oxbridge sure but also an academic degree from a good London uni, Warwick etc.. can make a significant difference to career prospects vs a vocational degree from a not so highly ranked one.

I think it's debatable, outside of Oxbridge, quite how much career impact one russell group uni like UCL would improve your career prospects vs another russell group uni like Exeter.

I'd have said the subject of the degree is probably far more influential when you're comparing universities that are all well regarded - Exeter isn't exactly an ex-poly or anything is it?

Edit - and not forgetting there may well also be an element of prestige in regards the company the degree apprenticeship is undertaken with, the likes of IBM and KPMG offer this particular course with Exeter and i'm sure names like that on your CV early doors can only help your future career prospects.

 

[dowie]

I think it's debatable, outside of Oxbridge, quite how much career impact one russell group uni like UCL would improve your career prospects vs another russell group uni like Exeter.

I'd have said the subject of the degree is probably far more influential when you're comparing universities that are all well regarded - Exeter isn't exactly an ex-poly or anything is it?

For a start, it's a vocational degree so prospects for various MSc or PhD programs are already rather slim.

Also, Russell Group isn't everything, Bath for example isn't in the Russell Group but if you wanted to hire a BSc Mathematics grad, then it's as good as if not better than a lot of Russell Group unis.

More to the point (after Oxbridge) the likes of Imperial, LSE, UCL and Warwick + a few others (which may vary) are "target" universities for some lucrative careers in banking/finance(front office roles close to the money rather than general IT roles), big 3 consultancy jobs, and big tech/FAANG etc.

Edit - and not forgetting there may well also be an element of prestige in regards the company the degree apprenticeship is undertaken with, the likes of IBM and KPMG offer this particular course with Exeter and i'm sure names like that on your CV early doors can only help your future career prospects.

Sure, IBM was a big deal last century and if you want to work for an accounting firm then...

But joking aside there are rather different jobs available, I'm not knocking degree apprenticeships - I said in another thread they were a good idea in some cases. There will be plenty of people from regular degree courses going into those same 40k-a-year grad jobs doing something IT-related (BA, PM, developer etc..) and in that case perhaps the degree apprenticeship may have been the better option.

I guess two important things for OP to consider are - will he want to go on to a postgraduate degree? If so that's perhaps answered the dilemma.

Secondly - what career(s) he's interested in and what sort of background do the people in those careers have.

 

[Kenai]

For a start, it's a vocational degree so prospects for various MSc or PhD programs are already rather slim.

I guess two important things for OP to consider are - will he want to go on to a postgraduate degree? If so that's perhaps answered the dilemma.

Leaving the discussion on particular institutes behind, as that could go back and forth forever, these comments interest me - I'm not aware that degree apprenticeships preclude you from progressing to a postgraduate qualification particularly?

Everything I understand about a degree apprenticeship is that you ultimately end up with an undergraduate degree (BSc, BEng etc. depending on subject) the same as someone who attended full time, part time, distance learning, whatever.

Or are you referring to 'Digital and Technology Systems' being more restrictive than 'Computer Science', which is an issue with subject more than the study pathway?

 

[drakioned]

I think a good degree from a good university opens up more options in life for sure, but whether this is worthwhile largely depends on:
a) whether you're going to be able to capitalise on those options (i.e. do you have the resources or aptitude for them),
b) whether you are likely to want those options

If neither apply, don't put yourself into debt for no great reason.

On the "good university" debate - a good university is one that turns up in the Times Higher Education rankings near the top. The university matters more than how good that university is at a particular subject.
A graduate from good university unlocks options not available to people who graduate from "worse" institutions.

This isn't really something negotiable in some cases, as a very practical example: if you have a degree from a top 200 university, you can get a jobseekers visa for Korea, if you get a degree from a top 100 university you can get a golden visa for Dubai.

A good university literally unlocks options others can't, but also, it only makes a difference if you want those options and you can afford it and be able to compete in that space.

Sources:

Golden visa | The Official Portal of the UAE Government

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D-10-1 Job Seeker Visa 상세보기|Visa RequirementEmbassy of the Republic of Korea to the Republic of Singapore

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overseas.mofa.go.kr

 

[dowie]

Leaving the discussion on particular institutes behind, as that could go back and forth forever, these comments interest me - I'm not aware that degree apprenticeships preclude you from progressing to a postgraduate qualification particularly?

Everything I understand about a degree apprenticeship is that you ultimately end up with an undergraduate degree (BSc, BEng etc. depending on subject) the same as someone who attended full time, part time, distance learning, whatever.

Or are you referring to 'Digital and Technology Systems' being more restrictive than 'Computer Science', which is an issue with subject more than the study pathway?

I'm referring to them tending to be more vocational courses. As mentioned before you may have some of the same options available with a mathematics, physics or engineering degree. It depends on the requirements of the postgrad degree and what is covered on the course, some computer science BSc degrees can be quite vocational (typically those that don't require A-Level mathematics) and aren't suitable for some postgrad degrees, even those taught by computer science departments.