Soldato
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I agree, like rebuilding and compensating all the innocent people who had their businesses and livelihoods burned to the ground by the 'peaceful protestors'?
Derek Chauvin murder trial (Police officer who arrested George Floyd)
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I agree, like rebuilding and compensating all the innocent people who had their businesses and livelihoods burned to the ground by the 'peaceful protestors'?
Soldato
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I’m pretty sure Chauvin will walk.
>Full video shows GF clearly tripping balls.
>GF has previous for swallowing drugs when stopped by police, and a still from the bodycam shows what appears to be a pill in his mouth at the start of the incident.
>GF was saying he couldn’t breathe for nearly 20 mins.
>GF resisting being put in the car and asked to be placed on the ground.
>Toxicology report.
>The knee technique is sanctioned in such cases to stop the detainee from resisting or hurting themselves. Contrary to popular claims, he was not kneeling on his neck or using any significant force.
The initial video was horrible optics, but that's it.
>Full video shows GF clearly tripping balls.
>GF has previous for swallowing drugs when stopped by police, and a still from the bodycam shows what appears to be a pill in his mouth at the start of the incident.
>GF was saying he couldn’t breathe for nearly 20 mins.
>GF resisting being put in the car and asked to be placed on the ground.
>Toxicology report.
>The knee technique is sanctioned in such cases to stop the detainee from resisting or hurting themselves. Contrary to popular claims, he was not kneeling on his neck or using any significant force.
The initial video was horrible optics, but that's it.
Soldato
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Yeah maybe, there must be some basis for it
Caporegime
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Compensation culture in general has gone mad these last few years.
It's all a big show for the BLM lot tbh. I think if he was kneeing on his neck hard enough to kill him, he wouldn't be able to talk especially not for 20 minutes. He is going to get let off and BLM will do a few more riots and murders in response.
If the knee thing was taught in training and sanctioned the responsibility lies with the police force or whoever allowed it. This is how soldiers got away with the whole "torture" thing. They did it because they were directed to do it, only the ones who took it too far and started doing their own thing got done.
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I mean that's pretty political, the local politicians want to be able to virtue signal over this lest they be called racist, so they're hardly going to try and barter it down too low an amount, it needs to be a larger than usual payout. Taxpayers in that city have some reasonable questions here though and it's not as though this payoff will stop rioting.
The medical examiner hired by the family has done his job though... won't be hearing from him in the trial mind but his conclusions presented in this civil case have been reported on.
In normal circumstances for sure, in this trial with all the resources put into it and the publicity/tension surrounding it then there is a fair amount of uncertainty. I guess they are being careful with jury selection and I think 2nd degree murder is a complete reach but 3rd degree or manslaughter is on the cards here.
Soldato
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I can’t find it now but I’ve seen a photo of the literal handbook explaining and illustrating the technique. The photo from the book was exactly what Chauvin did.
I think the most he could be accused of is some kind of negligence, as the technique is supposed to be short-term and released when the detainee becomes compliant.
There’s also rumours of some tax related charges. In a case like this that usually means they’re struggling to get someone on the main charges.
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Welcome to my daily job
Soldato
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Tax charges are separate and AFAIK they can't be mentioned in this trial... I did also hear that Geroge's prior convictions/arrests can't be mentioned either - so a history of swallowing drugs etc.. can't be brought up for example.
Yes, the police handbook does seem to have that technique in with a specific picture. I don't believe he was restricting his breathing as it would have taken much less time than 9 minutes - I reckon the sort of holds hurfdurf is super keen to demonstrate on people would have them tapping out or unconscious much sooner that than ergo rather moot other than as an illustration of them being a bad comparison here.
I'm open to the notion that perhaps during the process of holding him down there were periods where the knee made breathing difficult but then again, it's quite plausible that it was only pushing down a bit to hold him in position, we don't know that his full body weight was on the knee (very unlikely that it was). It certainly does seem to be an approved technique they're trained to use:
here is the picture from the Minneapolis Police training manual:
Note they mention sudden cardiac arrest as a risk there (and that is quite plausibly what happened here), they also note to call EMS to get them on scene - the officers did do that - they'd already called for paramedics early on re: the cut Floyd suffered during the faffing about trying to get him into a police vehicle initially but also placed a second call once they had to restrain to upgrade the urgency of the call.
and some comments from a thread detailing an earlier court motion by another officer (Lane):
Soldato
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The jury selection is going to be very important. Sadly race will probably determine to the trail outcome rather then objective evidence much like the OJ Simpson case.
The medical examiner concluded George Floyd died of a heart attack not asphyxiation which would make proving murder difficult. If this was in the UK would say manslaughter is the most likely outcome but in the US? God only knows.
The medical examiner concluded George Floyd died of a heart attack not asphyxiation which would make proving murder difficult. If this was in the UK would say manslaughter is the most likely outcome but in the US? God only knows.
yep and that ended fairly
It very much did. The police lost mainly because they had a hella racist cop on the force and the jury were swayed by that getting exposed in court iirc.
Utterly botched the prosecution. OJ was guilty and the police force was so racist it was easy to make it seem like he was just being racially charged.
I await the race war in the USA then.
You do know he was married to a non white person?
You're really embracing yourself in this and other threads.
Soldato
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I don't remember anyone accusing OJ of being racist but his defense team (in particular Johnny Cochrun) was determined to make it all about race. They managed to get an almost all black jury to determine the fate of a guy who was a hero figure in the black community and a community that was still upset over the Rodney King incident.
That was only one person but it was typical shows was shows who a lot of people in the black community didn't trust the police. Of course the prosecution botched their case and the police botched the handling of the forensics but race IMO tipped the balance.
In Derek's case an white jury still may not be impartial as unconscious bias is an actual thing that's been shown in study groups so in a high profile case like it's important you get a jury that's made up of a genuine cross section of society.
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Soldato
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Tax charges are separate and AFAIK they can't be mentioned in this trial... I did also hear that Geroge's prior convictions/arrests can't be mentioned either - so a history of swallowing drugs etc.. can't be brought up for example.
Yes, the police handbook does seem to have that technique in with a specific picture. I don't believe he was restricting his breathing as it would have taken much less time than 9 minutes - I reckon the sort of holds hurfdurf is super keen to demonstrate on people would have them tapping out or unconscious much sooner that than ergo rather moot other than as an illustration of them being a bad comparison here.
I'm open to the notion that perhaps during the process of holding him down there were periods where the knee made breathing difficult but then again, it's quite plausible that it was only pushing down a bit to hold him in position, we don't know that his full body weight was on the knee (very unlikely that it was). It certainly does seem to be an approved technique they're trained to use:
here is the picture from the Minneapolis Police training manual:
Note they mention sudden cardiac arrest as a risk there (and that is quite plausibly what happened here), they also note to call EMS to get them on scene - the officers did do that - they'd already called for paramedics early on re: the cut Floyd suffered during the faffing about trying to get him into a police vehicle initially but also placed a second call once they had to restrain to upgrade the urgency of the call.
and some comments from a thread detailing an earlier court motion by another officer (Lane):
I’m sure there are better ways to restrain someone than a knee to the neck, ******* hell!
I'm sure there are, but for the purpose of this discussion re: the trial it's literally what they were trained to do - is the blame to be placed on the officer or is a lot of the blame on the institution he was working for and their training/procedures.
The rookie cop (of which there were two) also cited his training/procedures in the motion his lawyer filed.
For the rookies this seems to have been especially bad, they weren't the ones with a knee on the neck and one of them questioned it a couple of times but (presumably, as it was an authorised technique) accepted the answer from Chauvin, an officer with many years experience who was supervising them - that same rookie cop performed CPR on Floyd in the ambulance yet he was sacked by the city and is now facing trial as an accomplice. I don't see how it is particularly fair for either of them to face charges here, to have been fired or to have their pictures plastered nationwide, it was weak leadership and caving to the mob on the part of the city.
There is a valid case to answer for the main officer involved, the subject of this thread, for at least two of the other three (if not all three tbh..) I don't see why they're not still employed and/or were simply subject to an investigation here - they would quite clearly have been if this weren't such a huge story and powerful people in their city felt they had to be seen to do something.
Unconscious bias is a dubious and often ill-defined area, anyone is going to have certain biases re: what is or isn't reasonable or likely to be true etc.. simply based on life experience.
What society do you mean? Locally or nationally? The jury pool is drawn from Hennepin County which is largely white - white non-Hispanic being the biggest group:
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/hennepin-county-mn#demographics
The jury will probably not be too far off the above if selected properly - neither the defence nor the prosecution can use race etc.. to disqualify the jurors though I guess they can try to find excuses.
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