Detention centres of the 80's

[spankingtexan]

Did the short sharp shock ever work? Detention centres or DC were the prefered puishment of the times, did it truly prevent youth crime in it's day?

As a 19 year old in February 1981 I was one who experienced this brutal regime not unlike the tv drama scum. My crime was having a scrap on the streets that led to a 3 month DC sentence at the notorious north sea camp in Boston. Nothing to be proud about but I feel anger at the system for such harsh treatment for being a boy.....boys will be boys and I feel that these sentences were far to harsh, don't get me wrong though, I also understand I deserved to be punished for my crime but the harshness of the sentence was disproportionate. Point being I still feel angry at the system to this day.

 

[jamesblade]

Spent some time in Strangways back in the 80s, 3 in a cell, banged up for 23 hours a day, slopping out on the landing, pad mates crapping in paper and wrapping it in parcels with thread from the bed blankets before throwing it out the window. Certainly put me off going back inside.. Look back on it as life experience now..

 

[Biohazard]

Without dynamic and personalised rehabilitation and real support once released into the community particularly in relation to employment jail only seems to harder the criminal resolve of many. Not all will respond, by breaking the cycle of crime is harder than punishment alone.

It would certainly appear to not deter crime in the States either from what I know.

 

[TS7]

Without dynamic and personalised rehabilitation and real support once released into the community particularly in relation to employment jail only seems to harder the criminal resolve of many. Not all will respond, by breaking the cycle of crime is harder than punishment alone.

It would certainly appear to not deter crime in the States either from what I know.

Problem is almost all the attempts by the government at different forms of rehabilitation through various schemes and programmes costing many, many, many millions have all failed. Most with an above 95% re-offending rate.

Another problem is the whole area of prisons and sentencing is heavily politicised. A lot of the time progress can't be made due to politicians fear of how the public perceive what action they are taking in terms of prison. So in order to maintain public support they just keep expanding prison numbers to show how 'hard' they are on crime. Resulting in prisons currently being ridiculously over-populated.

In my opinion, prison policy should be completely detached, similar to how the UK Monetary policy is handled. A separate, independent, expert body.

 

[Redman]

Did the short sharp shock ever work? Detention centres or DC were the prefered puishment of the times, did it truly prevent youth crime in it's day?

As a 19 year old in February 1981 I was one who experienced this brutal regime not unlike the tv drama scum. My crime was having a scrap on the streets that led to a 3 month DC sentence at the notorious north sea camp in Boston. Nothing to be proud about but I feel anger at the system for such harsh treatment for being a boy.....boys will be boys and I feel that these sentences were far to harsh, don't get me wrong though, I also understand I deserved to be punished for my crime but the harshness of the sentence was disproportionate. Point being I still feel angry at the system to this day.

Did you 'reoffend'? Serious question. You experienced the solution of the time, how has it affected you?

 

[bhavv]

The kind of treatment described sounds to me like it would severely aggravate such kids / criminals and make them become far worse than they would have been without it.

 

[~>Dg<~]

all of my friends who went ended up going back or doing worse.

it solved nothing if not made them worse as people from going inside in first place

 

[jsmoke]

People have to live in the times, peoples attitudes are forever fluctuating, that was the ideology back then and it was nasty, disciplining people like they did, go back to the 60s and it was even more brutal.

So what changed us, why have we become less brutal toward discipline and maybe more liberal toward giving people their own freedom. You tell me.

The movie 'Scum' was spot on though, that was the attitude back then, even though it was a bit before my time, but that's the way it was. You can certainly blame the Tory attitude for certain things in this country.

 

[Meridian]

Problem is almost all the attempts by the government at different forms of rehabilitation through various schemes and programmes costing many, many, many millions have all failed. Most with an above 95% re-offending rate.

What? All evidence shows that proper rehabilitation is far more successful than just prison at stopping re-offending. The main limiting factor is the fact that things which need to be done after the prisoner is released (education, skill training, a job, moving away from crim friends, and proper accommodation) are politically unacceptable as they are seen by many to be "rewarding" crime. Evidence from other countries suggests that with more political will (and less notice of frothing tabloid editors) and better rehabilitation, offending rates could be reduced further. No one has ever said rehab doesn't work, just that it's not politically acceptable in any form which works.


As for the OP, he's really talking about two different things. The "Short, Sharp Shock" policy that the Tories brought in was a specific punishment involving drill instructors, barracks etc. It was abandoned after about two years (very quietly) after it was realised that some of the prisoners liked it, and were offending again just to get back in the program. Offenders frequently come from chaotic home backgrounds, and they liked the fact that their life now had structure. The more common Detention Centres were just (AFAIK) rebranded Borstals, later to become "Young Offenders Institutes".

 

[TS7]

What? All evidence shows that proper rehabilitation is far more successful than just prison at stopping re-offending. The main limiting factor is the fact that things which need to be done after the prisoner is released (education, skill training, a job, moving away from crim friends, and proper accommodation) are politically unacceptable as they are seen by many to be "rewarding" crime. Evidence from other countries suggests that with more political will (and less notice of frothing tabloid editors) and better rehabilitation, offending rates could be reduced further. No one has ever said rehab doesn't work, just that it's not politically acceptable in any form which works.

Erm, that was the point I was making Did you read my post in its entirety?

All the attempts the successive governments over the years in England and Wales have made at rehabilitation have failed. Have a look for yourself. The re-offending rates are staggering. This is because the rehabilitation methods the government use through their schemes and programmes are ineffective.

Which is why I said prison policy needs to be made independent from politicians in order for it to progress and the fear of 'rewarding crime' will be irrelevant and thus, proper, effective rehabilitation can be implemented.

 

[One]

In my opinion, prison policy should be completely detached, similar to how the UK Monetary policy is handled. A separate, independent, expert body.

This worked out well.

 

[spankingtexan]

Did you 'reoffend'? Serious question. You experienced the solution of the time, how has it affected you?

I'm afraid I did get a little worse before I got better but just wanted to hit back, I did cope very well during my stay at north sea and funnily enough did enjoy some of the drills, but the real anger came from some of the screws who didn't think twice about assaulting inmates, the night watchman was a real *******, he'd come round at night and just wack people with a big heavy clock he used to carry, he was nicknamed basher brown.
As for the affects, It just made me more rebellious and I think that has carried through to this day, although it is controlled and effectively administered in the way of bombarding Downing street with countless letters of complaints.

 

[Meridian]

Erm, that was the point I was making Did you read my post in its entirety?

I did, and re-reading it now still doesn't make it clear - to me at least. However, I apologise anyway.

 

[4T5]

I did my DC at North Sea Camp as well.

I have never been more violent/aggressive than when in DC, I was treated as an animal so I acted like an animal.
Another thing it taught me was where I stood in the World so when I got out I went berserk, My most serious crimes were done in the few years after I was released & I mean serious not the stupid boy **** I got my DC for.

The one thing that would have sorted me out was the Army, Unfortunately I was refused entry when I applied at nearly 16 because I already had a criminal record. I was in the Army Cadets & got on really well, Loved it in fact.
This was the one opportunity the Government had of turning me into something worth while but I was denied for petty **** I did when 12+.

Still boils my **** to this day.

 

[Von Smallhausen]

I did my DC at North Sea Camp as well.

I have never been more violent/aggressive than when in DC, I was treated as an animal so I acted like an animal.

My mate said the same thing. He's against treating people like animals because they will act like them, it isn't right and somebody has to look after them.

Ironic thing is he works as a screw and testament to how much he's respected is when out for a drink, a hulk of a bloke who'd been recently released tapped him on the shoulder and shook his hand.

 

[robgmun]

I did my DC at North Sea Camp as well.

I have never been more violent/aggressive than when in DC, I was treated as an animal so I acted like an animal.

From the the documentries i've seen over the years where the opposite is now happening (inmates treated with kid gloves) seems like you treat them as human being and they still behaved like animals.

 

[Stolly]

I did my DC at North Sea Camp as well.

I have never been more violent/aggressive than when in DC, I was treated as an animal so I acted like an animal.
Another thing it taught me was where I stood in the World so when I got out I went berserk, My most serious crimes were done in the few years after I was released & I mean serious not the stupid boy **** I got my DC for.

The one thing that would have sorted me out was the Army, Unfortunately I was refused entry when I applied at nearly 16 because I already had a criminal record. I was in the Army Cadets & got on really well, Loved it in fact.
This was the one opportunity the Government had of turning me into something worth while but I was denied for petty **** I did when 12+.

Still boils my **** to this day.

The Armed Forces are not a social program. They don't exist for the benefit of petty criminals. Likewise, its not the governments responsibility to turn you around, that responsibility is a personal one the government can only assist.

 

[4T5]

The Armed Forces are not a social program. They don't exist for the benefit of petty criminals. Likewise, its not the governments responsibility to turn you around, that responsibility is a personal one the government can only assist.

I think you've read what you want to in what I posted rather than respond to what I've posted.

 

[bhavv]

From the the documentries i've seen over the years where the opposite is now happening (inmates treated with kid gloves) seems like you treat them as human being and they still behaved like animals.

Simply treating them with kid gloves is not the same thing as proper rehabilitation. The latter is a lot more effective.

Yet you can't really expect a county that currently sends people to jail for possession of weed, or for posting on Facebook, or a public that develops pitch fork mentally over a mererly accused yet still innocent person to ever get handling their laws and criminals right.

 

[badcompany]

yer but who's the daddy