Developers: What education/qualifications do you have and has it helped you in your career?

[Haircut]

So, was having a discussion in the office recently about everyone's degrees and we found that out of about 12 people only two of them actually had computer science degrees.

Most of the rest were in STEM subjects, but not actual computer science.
I'm in that boat having been a developer for 11 years, but with a maths/physics degree.

The reason it came up is that one of the guys was having a conversation with someone with a CS degree and found himself getting a bit lost with some of the conversation. Not sure exactly what it was about but I think it was fairly technical.

From my perspective I don't think I could tell who has a CS background and who doesn't purely from the work they churn out, but I have at some points considered doing a masters in computer science so that I have some formal computing education.
I certainly don't think not having that has held back my career at all though and I'd be interested to hear other's thoughts.

EDIT: I should probably clarify I'm talking about helping in day to day work life more than the degree getting you on a grad placement scheme or anything like that in the first place.

 

[Th3M8dH8tt3r]

I guess it depends on the language you're talking about.

I'm a web developer with zero degree in anything and I'm doing just fine. I've learnt everything I know through tutorials and online learning, nothing related to an educational body. I'm the sort of person though, that once I know the principals of the language, I can work out how to do something and visualise what I need to do to make stuff happen.

 

[Amleto]

I imagine a CS degree helps less and less the more experience you have.

 

[Hades]

Having a computing degree of some flavour would help in opening that first door to a job. But apart from that I see a passion for programming as a better qualification. I'm self taught (a long time ago) and can't see that a degree would have helped.

Professional qualifications in the language you use would be of benefit as you become more experienced.

 

[touch]

I'm a developer with a computing degree.
It helped me to get a job and gave me an understanding of the basics of programming, etc but i have learnt so much more in 3 years of working than i did from 4 years at uni.

 

[AJK]

Short answer...

I don't think it will add much to your everyday working life with a maths/science degree and 11 years experience, but you know your situation better than I do, and if you feel that some formal CS education would benefit you professionally or personally, then go for it.

Longer answer...

So, I'm a developer with a CS degree (graduated 2007). In terms of career placement my degree opened the door, but I can't say I refer to my textbooks on a daily basis now. I learned more about the actual working life of a developer and programming for money (rather than for academic assignments) in about the first three weeks of proper work, let alone three years. Prior to my degree I'd been programming since about age 14 (mostly Perl, what a language to start with!!)

Does that mean my degree had no value? Of course not. I thoroughly enjoyed doing it, and through my degree I have a sound theoretical understanding of how computers actually work, the logic and mathematics on which their operation is based, database theory, data structures, algorithms and networks, and so on. Your mileage may vary as to how relevant those topics actually are. Do I use this information on a daily basis? Generally not consciously; but it's hard to say how differently I think about programming versus someone who doesn't have that background.

Something you don't mention is what kind of development you actually do. There are many different kinds of job which are recognised as "development" - for example, a Wordpress template developer, a database developer, a legacy developer maintaining old batch scripts, an embedded systems developer working with low level languages and strictly limited memory and execution time requirements, and so on. Obviously some of those roles would benefit more from a sound understanding of computer science, whereas to others it would simply be irrelevant.

And of course we come to the simplest question - are you interested in CS, either professionally or personally? You mention that "one of the guys was having a conversation with someone with a CS degree and found himself getting a bit lost" - did this lack of understanding cause a problem in your working environment, or was it simply a common interest conversation where one person knew more specifics than the other? If you are experiencing working issues due to a lack of CS background, then some formal study sounds like it would be a great idea. If not, then the decision is largely a personal one - will this kind of study enhance your understanding of what you do (or could, or might do, etc.) in a productive and enjoyable way?

One of my former colleagues, with no formal maths/CS background, is planning to study for a "Foundations of Computer Science" XSeries certificate (material from MIT and other institutions). I suspect that with a maths/physics degree and 11 years of experience behind you, this would probably be below your level, but with the increasing number and quality of online courses, accredited and otherwise, that are available now, something like that might be a good option?

Hope that helped! (Sorry if not!)

 

[GravyMonster]

Personally I have 6 GCSEs and a GNVQ. I have absolutely no IT qualifications at all. From my experience of working with people straight out of Uni, CS degrees (and the like) teach you all the theory, but it's experience which counts for everything.

The main differentiator of having qualifications is the level of job you'll start at. Personally I started 14 years ago on a £7k a year apprenticeship, writing classic ASP and VB6. If I'd had some kind of IT qualifications I could probably have doubled that salary, although probably working at the same level.

Once you've got 2 or 3 years commercial experience behind you, qualifications mean absolutely squat.

 

[djkav]

I was self taught from around the age of 10 after using school BBCs. Then at home using Atari 800xl, Spectrum, C64, Atari ST and Amiga and finally PC.

On those I did, BASIC, ASM, C++, COBOL, dBASE, STOS, AMOS, Blitz, c#.

I do have a HND in Computer Studies which taught me nothing new in programming.

Once you've got 2 or 3 years commercial experience behind you, qualifications mean absolutely squat.

This pretty much sums it up. I sometimes work on fictitious projects just to boost my skills and portfolio.

 

[D.P.]

I have a Phd and yes, it helped greatly. From the logistics side more job opertunities,easier visa process, higher salary, broader spectrum of potential jobs. From a work side yes, the ability to manage my time and large projects without micromanagement, communicating technical details both orally and in writing (writing a patent is much like writing scientific journal paper), managing others, researching new methods to tackle novel problems, ability to think outside the box, rapidly browse and process existing scientific literature to find appropriate algorithms and methodologies.

 

[AJK]

I sometimes work on fictitious projects just to boost my skills and portfolio.

You surely don't mean "fictitious"...

 

[djkav]

You surely don't mean "fictitious"...

Yes, why would I not mean "fictitious"?

 

[Greenja]

Yeah I was curious about the use of the word "fictitious". To me it makes that sentence read like you just make projects up, that you have never done any work on or any intention to do, just to put in your "portfolio". Basically just a project title with no actual substance.

As you also said "to boost my skills" this wouldn't make sense, as you would have to actually do something to boost your skills!

So unless I'm missing something with the use of the word I have to agree with AJK, surely you don't mean fictitious?

 

[GravyMonster]

Yes, why would I not mean "fictitious"?

Are they fictitious in the fact that you've completely made them up and they don't exist, or do you mean 'spurious' where it's work you have actually created but for no reason other than to put on your CV?

 

[Smit]

I have a joint degree Mathematics & CS although I can't say either really help much in my day to day duties.

 

[djkav]

Yeah I was curious about the use of the word "fictitious". To me it makes that sentence read like you just make projects up, that you have never done any work on or any intention to do, just to put in your "portfolio". Basically just a project title with no actual substance.

As you also said "to boost my skills" this wouldn't make sense, as you would have to actually do something to boost your skills!

So unless I'm missing something with the use of the word I have to agree with AJK, surely you don't mean fictitious?

Depends on how much of the English language you apply to the word "fictitious".

You interpret a fictitious project to be a fake empty placeholder.

I use it in the context of a made up project with a specific use for R+D or to demonstrate various systems etc.

Just like a fictitious book, it has content but is still made up.

Are they fictitious in the fact that you've completely made them up and they don't exist, or do you mean 'spurious' where it's work you have actually created but for no reason other than to put on your CV?

fictitious and spurious are synonymous, thus both mean the same. My fictitious projects are things I do in bouts of spare unpaid time, to conduct R+D or refine techniques or for demonstrations.

 

[Haircut]

Short answer...

I don't think it will add much to your everyday working life with a maths/science degree and 11 years experience, but you know your situation better than I do, and if you feel that some formal CS education would benefit you professionally or personally, then go for it.

Longer answer...

So, I'm a developer with a CS degree (graduated 2007). In terms of career placement my degree opened the door, but I can't say I refer to my textbooks on a daily basis now. I learned more about the actual working life of a developer and programming for money (rather than for academic assignments) in about the first three weeks of proper work, let alone three years. Prior to my degree I'd been programming since about age 14 (mostly Perl, what a language to start with!!)

Does that mean my degree had no value? Of course not. I thoroughly enjoyed doing it, and through my degree I have a sound theoretical understanding of how computers actually work, the logic and mathematics on which their operation is based, database theory, data structures, algorithms and networks, and so on. Your mileage may vary as to how relevant those topics actually are. Do I use this information on a daily basis? Generally not consciously; but it's hard to say how differently I think about programming versus someone who doesn't have that background.

Something you don't mention is what kind of development you actually do. There are many different kinds of job which are recognised as "development" - for example, a Wordpress template developer, a database developer, a legacy developer maintaining old batch scripts, an embedded systems developer working with low level languages and strictly limited memory and execution time requirements, and so on. Obviously some of those roles would benefit more from a sound understanding of computer science, whereas to others it would simply be irrelevant.

And of course we come to the simplest question - are you interested in CS, either professionally or personally? You mention that "one of the guys was having a conversation with someone with a CS degree and found himself getting a bit lost" - did this lack of understanding cause a problem in your working environment, or was it simply a common interest conversation where one person knew more specifics than the other? If you are experiencing working issues due to a lack of CS background, then some formal study sounds like it would be a great idea. If not, then the decision is largely a personal one - will this kind of study enhance your understanding of what you do (or could, or might do, etc.) in a productive and enjoyable way?

One of my former colleagues, with no formal maths/CS background, is planning to study for a "Foundations of Computer Science" XSeries certificate (material from MIT and other institutions). I suspect that with a maths/physics degree and 11 years of experience behind you, this would probably be below your level, but with the increasing number and quality of online courses, accredited and otherwise, that are available now, something like that might be a good option?

Hope that helped! (Sorry if not!)

Thanks for that. In my case anything like a masters would be done purely from a personal point of view as I've never particularly struggled to do my job.
I'm an application developer building financial trading systems, so it's a bit more involved that doing WordPress templates but there still isn't all that much algorithmic complexity.

There is still an element of not really knowing what I'm missing out on by not having ever done pure computer science though.
A lot of the stuff we're doing now has a background in functional programming (that was the topic of the chat the guy got lost with) so I'm learning about lambda calculus, monoids, monads, currying - all new stuff that until reasonably recently I barely knew existed.

Just like a fictitious book, it has content but is still made up.

I'd say that it was a fictitious story in a real book. If the book was fictitious it wouldn't exist to have the story in it!

 

[PhysicsMan94]

Interesting topic, I am currently at university in my second year of a Physics degree but I will be doing an intercalated year in Computer Science next year as part of my whole degree - so hopefully I will have the best of both worlds by the time I graduate.

However, as I understand it, experience is definitely key in the programming industry (a rather large field) and so it will probably be highly beneficial for me to get some sort of programming experience in a summer placement (or, even better, series of summer placements).

I can imagine that the area I want to go into eventually, which is helping design/develop/refine physics engines for games, is probably quite competitive!

 

[Randomface74]

yeah, computing degree totally made the difference for me

 

[Skyboat]

I can't really contribute much as I've not long been working again, but...

I had a job as a web designer for 2 years before uni and wanted to move on, but felt that all the decent jobs offered out there required graduates degrees, else significant years of experience needed in specific skill sets.

Three years later I've graduated with a first in computer science and had no problems finding graduate jobs for which the starting salaries were greatly better than what I was previously earning (although that isn't forgetting the student loans debts I now owe )

Looking to the future and salary expectations I can see that it was a good choice. However, I have always been a passionate programmer, and like others have said it's definitely helped getting off the starting blocks in my chosen career path. I do see it as something that sticks out better on a CV than another potential candidate who might not have the same qualifications listed, and I think still looks appealing in the eyes of employers.

 

[GravyMonster]

fictitious and spurious are synonymous, thus both mean the same. My fictitious projects are things I do in bouts of spare unpaid time, to conduct R+D or refine techniques or for demonstrations.

Fictitious = doesnt exist. Spurious = fake. They're not synonymous.

If youve actually written some code for you're own projects then they're not fictitious.