Digitising Composite Video - any recommendations for a composite upscaler and HDMI capture device?

[Mysterae_]

Does anybody have any recommendations for a relatively cheap but good quality composite to HDMI upscaler and a separate HDMI (USB3) capture device?

I've been tasked with digitising some old camcorder videos and from what I've discovered you get better results using separate devices. One device for upscaling the composite video (s-video possibly) to HDMI and then capturing the HDMI with a capture device, preferably USB3 or higher.

Budget is around £100 and I don't need any editing software as I already use DaVinci Resolve.

Cheers.

 

[Lord Alibaski]

There is no point in recording using composite then using an HDMI upscaler it won't make it look any better.

Capturing analog video and capturing it again with the upscaler will probably just make it look worse, use the camcorder and capture it using a s-video cable and audio cables (if the camcorder as them).

I have used nearly every device you can think of since the late 90s but when Lite-on released the 5045 I started using their machines to record my VHS tapes they just make it much easier to use and messing about with different devices. I am still using a few now the hd-a740gx & hd-a760gx with 2 Panasonic Nv-fs 200 machines. If your search Youtube for Jimmy Smithson you will find many of my VHS recordings shared all over the place and these recordings are good enough for me.

So basically what I am saying is use the camcorder try and find a HD DVD recorder it's much easier, though try and find one of the Lite-on ones because it's easier to take the end results off the hard drive put them onto your PC and you can use resolve to make it look better yourself than using an upscaler.

 

[Mysterae_]

Thanks for your advice @Lord Alibaski but a little too late as I've already ordered some hardware . The camcorder is a Hi8 with no s-video output so composite is what I'm starting with.

I went down a right rabbit hole with this project. First I saw this video that simplified the capturing and digitising of the video:

Then I looked at various upscalers and capture devices, read reviews and thought I might have to up my budget somewhat for better quality.

Then I stumbled across this video....

Before I knew it I was looking at Time Base Correctors, BlackMagic's Analogue to SDI and UpDownCrossHD mini converters and capture devices from Elgato . Probably skip the time base corrector though....

Then I gave myself a reality check and kicked scope creep to the kerb!

I settled on two devices:

Upscaler - an average reviewed unit from Tendak for the composite to HDMI conversion/upscaling, £33.
Capture Device - a well reviewed unit from Mirabox for the capturing to PC using the free OBS software, £44.

So for £77 I should have a pretty easy system of digitising the numerous tapes.

However, I'm thinking I should have got the StarTech upscaler that does 720p for £81 instead as that's much better reviewed and used Resolve's Super Scale feature to get to 1080p. Or perhaps StarTech's alternative 1080p version for £144. If the Tendak unit is really crap then I'll go the StarTech route and decide on either hardware or software for further upscaling.

 

[Lord Alibaski]

There isn't much to say looks like you already chose before listening to any advice from anyone on here.

You can use composite connection with the Lite-on devices, some have a FireWire connection also something most camcorders have (depending on age). The software you want to buy isn't a dedicated analog capturing software its screen capturing software so again will be limited on what you can do and actual quality, Something free like virtualdub2 would have been better.

The end of the day it is your choice on what you want to buy and how you want to capture them, I was just giving advice on a much easier way when doing it your way won't give you good results there won't be any improvement on picture quality doing that way.

 

[Mysterae_]

There isn't much to say looks like you already chose before listening to any advice from anyone on here.

You can use composite connection with the Lite-on devices, some have a FireWire connection also something most camcorders have (depending on age). The software you want to buy isn't a dedicated analog capturing software its screen capturing software so again will be limited on what you can do and actual quality, Something free like virtualdub2 would have been better.

The end of the day it is your choice on what you want to buy and how you want to capture them, I was just giving advice on a much easier way when doing it your way won't give you good results there won't be any improvement on picture quality doing that way.

Meow! I did wait while I continued my research but I was beginning to think it was too niche .

I looked in to the various devices you mentioned and it's mostly expensive second hand stuff with no guarantee of condition. The free and open source OBS suite is capturing software used by thousands of streamers and gamers but of course that can only capture and return the quality that it's HDMI capture device is given, i.e. from the analogue converter/upscaler. The Tendak converter/upscaler has reasonable reviews but I suspect that's from people upscaling old game consoles that don't have to deal with TBC. I shall see.

This approach seems very simple - Camcorder, composite output --> Tendak converter, HDMI output --> Mirabox capture device, USB3 output --> PC, running OBS. The process seems very easy - Press 'play' on the camcorder and 'capture' on OBS and let the tape run. Process the resulting file in Resolve as required.

I have come across VirtualDub2 and watched a few youtube videos on it - it does look extremely powerful if a little daunting with all it's options and possible configurations. Well worth a play with though.

Thanks for your advice, it is appreciated.

 

[Lord Alibaski]

Lol @ meow sorry if it come across as a bit abrupt it wasn't intentional, just thought you would hold out a bit longer.

It may seem easy so does doing it the way I said, its the outcome of it all what should matter and upscaling analog signal is a no go for many reasons but its up to you just don't think the quality is going to look good on a TV screen.

 

[Mysterae_]

A little abrupt perhaps, no offence taken .

It'll be interesting to see what results I can achieve and if I need to take a different path. I'll let you know!

 

[.one.]

There is no point in recording using composite then using an HDMI upscaler it won't make it look any better.

Capturing analog video and capturing it again with the upscaler will probably just make it look worse, use the camcorder and capture it using a s-video cable and audio cables (if the camcorder as them).

I have used nearly every device you can think of since the late 90s but when Lite-on released the 5045 I started using their machines to record my VHS tapes they just make it much easier to use and messing about with different devices. I am still using a few now the hd-a740gx & hd-a760gx with 2 Panasonic Nv-fs 200 machines. If your search Youtube for Jimmy Smithson you will find many of my VHS recordings shared all over the place and these recordings are good enough for me.

So basically what I am saying is use the camcorder try and find a HD DVD recorder it's much easier, though try and find one of the Lite-on ones because it's easier to take the end results off the hard drive put them onto your PC and you can use resolve to make it look better yourself than using an upscaler.

Interesting post not trying to hi jack thread op but Lord Alibaski any particular Liteon recorder you recommend ?
Cheers.

 

[Lord Alibaski]

The 740gx and 760gx are the same machine just the 760 comes with a bigger hard drive.

These devices do come with a DVD recorder but they are the main issue with the device they usually falter after a few years and these machines were discontinued many years ago, but don't let that put you off.

Few reasons for this you can actually replace the DVD drive inside with another drive if this is what you want to do but I don't use it for the DVD drive. My main use it to record my VHS tapes to the hard drive and the Liteon devices are the best for this. Some other makes make it hard to actually get the recordings off if the DVD drive on the machine isn't working because they're encrypted so you need to use iso burner to get the files off the hard drive. With the liteon you dont need to do this, all you need to do is remove the drive and connect it to a PC that still uses an ide cable or use a ide to USB converter. You copy the files over to your PC and just rename the file extension to mpeg or vob merge the files together as one and convert it to any format you want using your preferred software.

There is a couple of more things you can do. Depending on which machine you can find and they do appear on a certain site all the time you can actually flash the machine with a certain firmware which then you can add a hard drive of up to 500GB in size. This firmware also removes macrovision so you can record all your VHS tapes for your personal self. You also dont need to use a ide drive you cab get a ide to sata converter and either use a mechanical drive or ssd drive.

You can visit this site I have put pictures up of me using an ssd drive.

Upgrade Liteon lvw-5045 to 400G successfully

Hi all, I have upgraded my Liteon lvw-5045 to 400G successfully. Here is the instruction that I have posted on other forum: Part I: Explanation on

forum.videohelp.com

Recording VHS tapes is much easier this way and less time consuming than using all these crappy USB capture devices that are out now. Don't believe these videos on YouTube believe someone who has done this for many years. There is just no point in wasting money on upscalers with VHS tapes and most of these capture devices are rubbish. This is why I went this way I have many svhs machines and liteon devices some I am selling in the next few months. I've given up with my YouTube channel people were just ripping off my videos and saying it was their recording when they clearly weren't. Many of my recordings were that good even the owners asked me to do them for their own website (DMCWORLD.COM).

 

[Bubo]

I've been capturing my dad's old camcorder holiday videos off an ancient hi-8 Sony camcorder using an "Elgato Video Capture" USB device. The software it comes with is extremely simple to use and was OK to start with. The capture picture quality is fine for the source material, but the capture frame rate seems locked at 25 fps, and given this is video the apparent frame rate on the screen on the camcorder looked like it was going at 50fps, probably 50hz interlaced. I am not an expert on video frame rates tbh so me describing this like that is probably wrong, but all I can say is the video looked a lot smoother on the camcorder screen then when played back on PC after capturing. However, after I installed OBS and had a fiddle with the settings, I found that I could select the Elgato as a source, and if I selected a particular source setting/filter it would sample at 50hz and deinterlace without the comb affect. I got to tell you I am well happy with this for doing what I need, which is salvaging my dad's tapes before they get covered in fungus. I guess if I needed to upscale I could do it with FFmpeg, but as of yet I haven't needed to.

I don't know if this would also apply to capturing in composite/svideo from a VHS player, but I imagine it would be similar.

So in summary, the "Elgato Video Capture" device was just the job for me for straight to PC capture. I don't doubt what Alibaski is describing, sounds like he knows his stuff, but this device with OBS works for me fine. Scariest thing is hoping the tapes don't rip themselves due to fungus, and hoping the camcorder lasts long enough to get them all.

 

[AyeAyeAhoy!]

It's interesting, now these devices are getting older and older, it's getting harder and harder to digitise in older formats.

Personally, I'm always an advocate of capturing in as close a format as possible to the source material. So DV25 for MiniDV, DV50 for Digibeta etc. Any upscaling can be done in software better than most hardware (except for the old AJ-HD1400 decks. Those were a class act)

I'm lucky enough to have a DSR-45P kicking around, which has FireWire out the back. It has S-Video, composite and component in, so most of the older formats can be fed into it and looped out again if needed.

 

[Mysterae_]

I meant to update this for the interest of the few. The converter and upscaler arrived and I started to have a play.

It's interesting, now these devices are getting older and older, it's getting harder and harder to digitise in older formats.

This is very true, especially when the original device fails!

Not long after starting this my aging Ferguson camcorder just stopped opening to load a tape. Thankfully there wasn't a tape inside it and considering it's age I thought the moving parts might just need a clean and grease, so opened it up.

I wasn't so lucky.

A number of capacitors had leaked on the camcorder's power board causing some corrosion and with power being applied those few times probably caused it to finally fail. I had nothing I could play the tapes on!

So after a bit of research I bought a Sony DCR-TRV340E handycam as a replacement.

As the image above shows, it has svideo, DV (firewire) and USB outputs as well as time base correction. Using this and the converter and upscaler (my PC doesn't have Firewire) I finally got some footage on to my computer for editing.

I've settled on using VirtualDub2 instead of OBS as it has far more control and settings to improve the picture however I've yet to find the best method. Things like capturing at the original resolution and using software to upscale or use the hardware upscaler, what's the best final resolution for viewing and the many other settings I've seen used in tutorials for VirtualDub2. There's a lot of configuration possible!

I'm in no rush though .

 

[bloodiedathame]

If you want to upscale stuff I'd recommend using Topaz AI rather than any hardware upscaler, it does a very good job.

 

[Donnie Fisher]

Capture close to the original, even interlaced is fine. The likes of mpeg2 format is designed to match the older style formats so use it.

Svideo is arguably the better channel compared to composite or even DV.

 

[AyeAyeAhoy!]

Nice, new cameras are always fun!

My recommendation would be to grab a FireWire card for your PC. Should be able to get one for about a tenner.

FireWire basically allows you to take an exact copy of the data that's on the tape. From there you can then run it through something like Topaz AI to upscale. That will be the best quality you can get.

Software wise, Win DV should capture for you

 

[.one.]

I have a liteon recorder on the way some people I know want some videos converting.

 

[Mysterae_]

If you want to upscale stuff I'd recommend using Topaz AI rather than any hardware upscaler, it does a very good job.

A few folk have mentioned Topaz AI, is that the Video AI? A bit pricey at $299 though!

Capture close to the original, even interlaced is fine. The likes of mpeg2 format is designed to match the older style formats so use it.

Svideo is arguably the better channel compared to composite or even DV.

I suppose it was fortuitous that the old camera died so that I can now use the better quality svideo output!

Nice, new cameras are always fun!

My recommendation would be to grab a FireWire card for your PC. Should be able to get one for about a tenner.

FireWire basically allows you to take an exact copy of the data that's on the tape. From there you can then run it through something like Topaz AI to upscale. That will be the best quality you can get.

Software wise, Win DV should capture for you

I don't have the space in my PC for a Firewire card (ITX motherboard, see sig). I looked into Firewire to USB C adaptors but apparently you have to go Firewire DV to Firewire 800 > Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt 2 > Thunderbolt 2 to USB_C and then pray all the cables and converters work with each other!

So svideo it is then .

 

[AyeAyeAhoy!]

I don't have the space in my PC for a Firewire card (ITX motherboard, see sig). I looked into Firewire to USB C adaptors but apparently you have to go Firewire DV to Firewire 800 > Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt 2 > Thunderbolt 2 to USB_C and then pray all the cables and converters work with each other!

So svideo it is then .

Funnily enough, I also have all those converters for running FireWire when I want to use it on the Mac. Looks atrocious, but does indeed work perfectly.

In any way, quality wise, FireWire will always be the best choice, and even cheaper software should do a better upscale than any hardware you can afford.

 

[Mysterae_]

Funnily enough, I also have all those converters for running FireWire when I want to use it on the Mac. Looks atrocious, but does indeed work perfectly

That interesting, perhaps it is an option. I read that the Apple Firewire to Thunderbolt 2 adaptor is the one to go for but it's pricey though.

 

[AyeAyeAhoy!]

Yes, that's the one I have - both in that chain are Apple ones. I've picked them up for less from CEX, but yes, they're annoyingly pricey