Disable Your Antivirus Software (Except Microsoft's)

AHarvey · 31 Jan 2017 at 16:40

Just read this regarding AV and why this dev thinks we need it turning off but keeping Micrsoft's on.

Just wondering what you guys think of this?

I must say, I've not used AV for years and years. I torrent and will every few months run a malware checker but it never finds anything. I don't really do anything confidential on my PC though but have a separate one just for work.

I've had one virus in 20 years of PC using, big warning on the screen as part of it and that was from my brother sending me a game file. Simple format reinstall job.

http://robert.ocallahan.org/2017/01/disable-your-antivirus-software-except.html

joeyjojo · 31 Jan 2017 at 17:20

I've never had third party antivirus. With care and vigilance around unknown files there's no need, especially as most PC activity happens through a web browser these days.

Saying that, the blog and this forum are more aimed at experienced users who understand the importance of security and vigilance. IMO average users will still need antivirus for some time, simply because they download and open or install dubious files without more care.

Hotwired · 31 Jan 2017 at 17:44

I think it sucks to know such things but at the same time you don't want the responsibility of telling less competent users to do the same.

They get a problem its now YOUR problem.

BananaDunka · 31 Jan 2017 at 18:05

Hotwired said:
I think it sucks to know such things but at the same time you don't want the responsibility of telling less competent users to do the same.

They get a problem its now YOUR problem.

That was the gist of the debate about it on reddit also.

For tech savvy users, the dev makes a valid point. I did this with the Win10 anniversary update as Defender has been revised and is genuinely better for it. No more AVAST/ESET/BitDefender etc for any machine in my home.

asim18 · 31 Jan 2017 at 18:13

Yeah makes sense. Microsoft's business model now matches that of a spyware/malware vendor, and Windows 10 is effectively the largest unmitigated and most widely propagated virus in history so there really is no point in calling NOD32/AVAST/whatever an anti-virus program unless it can somehow remove Windows 10 for you.

BananaDunka · 31 Jan 2017 at 18:28

Yes, Windows 10 is a virus.

scrivz69 · 31 Jan 2017 at 18:29

Defender on mine won't even work and yes it is a legit copy, comes up with a daft error message.

opethdisciple · 31 Jan 2017 at 19:19

Yes, I read this at the time and thought, finally someone speaking some sense on the matter.

I now it's not the point he's making, but these days you don't need anything other than just the windows built in antivirus.

Job done.

---

Patch your systems, patch your software, follow common sense etc.... and you will be 99.9999% fine.

KIA · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:00

opethdisciple said:
Patch your systems, patch your software, follow common sense etc.... and you will be 99.9999% fine.

Including:

Backup, and don't forget to test the backup on a regular basis.
64-bit Chrome or Firefox.
UAC enabled or use a standard user account.
Disable or remove browser extensions that you don't use on a regular basis.

Tips from security blogger Brian Krebs.
Tips from @SwiftOnSecurity

I ditched anti-virus in 07/08.

BananaDunka · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:07

UAC only causes me pointless faff and I've never needed it. I'd imagine most power users are the same. It remains off.

jpaul · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:13

Maybe it is not a credible analysis, but the av-comparatives.org/performance-tests/ categorises MS defender AV as having greater system impact,
so although MS might be well implemented and has not broken browser s/w, as the article suggests; this is a black mark against it.

I want to find an alternative for (free) Avira that I currently use, this has significant system impact for me, so I am loathed to change to MS which appears to be worse.

BananaDunka · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:23

My experience is that there is zero system impact difference compared to highly regarded third party AV. This is as a gamer and photo editor.

Holst1981 · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:35

I've used a avg for a long time.

Since I've had my current system its found nothing, but it's not intrusive and I don't think it slows anything down (everything is fast)

Thinking about it, I've never had a virus on my pc.

Maybe I'll uninstall it.

My main security concern is my phone these days.

opethdisciple · 31 Jan 2017 at 21:44

UAC on default settings is sufficient.

linktoinsanity · 1 Feb 2017 at 13:30

Most users should have an antivirus, I can see where the blogger is coming from in the article and understand his frustration, but do you actually believe that most viruses out there will throw up a message on the screen? What would a key-logger (for example) gain from letting you know it is there?

If you are not going to have an antivirus, you had better be dam sure that you know what you are doing and what to look out for. Also, if you remove it from friends and family, make sure you are prepared to resolve any issues they may get as a result. It makes me laugh when I read that someone has not had an antivirus and has never had a virus, how would you know?

Also, make sure you have one with good detection rates, is easy to use (and add exclusions to) and has a good Support team behind it.

UAC in either case should remain on (mine is left as default).

joeyjojo · 1 Feb 2017 at 13:49

mrk said:
UAC only causes me pointless faff and I've never needed it. I'd imagine most power users are the same. It remains off.

Not me, reminds me of being asked for root permission on 'proper' OSs.

When they introduced it in Vista I thought it was long overdue.

linktoinsanity said:
It makes me laugh when I read that someone has not had an antivirus and has never had a virus, how would you know?

Because there aren't that many ways a virus can get in? Most likely is running an infected executable - solution is don't do it. Next most likely is arbitrary code execution in a vulnerable bit of software (e.g. by opening a specially crafted file) - solution is keep software up to date, don't open dodgy files, and good network security etc. Also reduce attack surface, e.g. replace Adobe reader with Okular/Evince/Sumatra etc. etc.

As I wrote above IMO getting viruses is almost exclusively a result of human error.

Matteysan · 1 Feb 2017 at 14:23

mrk said:
UAC only causes me pointless faff and I've never needed it. I'd imagine most power users are the same. It remains off.

The only thing I do with UAC is stop it blacking out the screen when it prompts for a action.

Otherwise it is left on

Phate · 1 Feb 2017 at 14:43

AV is needed for non tech-savvy/people lacking in common sense! "Oh look, ugabadedoo from Nigeria has sent me a file, let me just open this zip..."

Anything other than MS's own is not required for tech-savvy/people with common sense. As in people who think twice about opening anything up.

But you need other measures in place as already mentioned. A proper back-up system in place for example.

Also utilising Cloud solutions makes a reformat (if needed) so much less of a hassle than it used to be!

However, if I am handling someone who falls in the former category...I recommend them ESET's NOD32. It's been my favourite non Microsoft AV for a long time.

Elevon · 1 Feb 2017 at 15:39

AHarvey said:
Just read this regarding AV and why this dev thinks we need it turning off but keeping Micrsoft's on.

Just wondering what you guys think of this?

I must say, I've not used AV for years and years. I torrent and will every few months run a malware checker but it never finds anything. I don't really do anything confidential on my PC though but have a separate one just for work.

I've had one virus in 20 years of PC using, big warning on the screen as part of it and that was from my brother sending me a game file. Simple format reinstall job.

http://robert.ocallahan.org/2017/01/disable-your-antivirus-software-except.html

A lot of that is BS in that post, a lot of third party AVs actually offer better performance and lighter then Defender, one of the reasons why I still use Bitdefender 2017 Total Security, also never had any issues in gaming on with Windows updates while it is on.

To be honest I only notice it is there when I see my Bitdefender icon in taskbar.

My reliability History is 10/10 according to Win10 in RH graph.

End of the don't believe what you read but try things out for yourself with your own real experience.

I consider myself computer savvy, but still prefer superior AV to Defender for many reasons why.

linktoinsanity · 1 Feb 2017 at 17:15

joeyjojo said:
Because there aren't that many ways a virus can get in? Most likely is running an infected executable - solution is don't do it. Next most likely is arbitrary code execution in a vulnerable bit of software (e.g. by opening a specially crafted file) - solution is keep software up to date, don't open dodgy files, and good network security etc. Also reduce attack surface, e.g. replace Adobe reader with Okular/Evince/Sumatra etc. etc.

As I wrote above IMO getting viruses is almost exclusively a result of human error.

You would not always know if a virus got in or not, not if you were browsing the web and one of the sites you visited was hacked. No, it's would not have to be a dodgy site. Script-blockers would help to prevent an issue here yes, but that is one example.

You can do what you like, but essentially if you are running no antivirus AND push family members away from an Antivirus who may not be technically savy, then you are asking for trouble.