Disappointed with a new Denon PMA-720AE amplifier and Tanny Revolution DC6 speakers

ajgoodfellow

ajgoodfellow

ajgoodfellow

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Hi there,

I've just purchased a Denon PMA-720AE amplifier and Tannoy Revolution DC6 speakers as an upgrade to my old Cambridge Audio A5 amp and Tanny Mercury MX2 speakers

Unfortunately the sound is very bright and lacking in bass. Switching on the loudness control improves the bass but it is rather indistinct

The speakers are biwired using Cambridge Audio Symphony 400 cabling with a length of four metres from the amp to the speakers

Is it a case of letting the amp and speakers bed in?

This isn't what I was expecting after reading the reviews, and to be honest, I currently prefer the old setup

The sound is similar when using different inputs on the back and different sources such as the TV, phone and CD player

Thanking you all in advance!
 
It will take a little while for the drivers bed in, the bass should fill out a bit. That said modern amp and speakers are going to be sharper less coloured and possible leaner than ones from yesteryear...
Experiment with speaker placement as well.
Assume you bought theses without a demo or dealer help/support?
 
9designs2 said:
That said modern amp and speakers are going to be sharper less coloured and possible leaner than ones from yesteryear...
Experiment with speaker placement as well.
Click to expand...

I'm always amazed the amount of people that think heavy/thunderous sound/bass that dominates is actually best. Youtube is full of these clips. Even distortion.
 
Thanks for the replies

I did buy them without a demo - I bought them from Richer Sounds in Birmingham in their sales. I phoned the store this morning and they said something similar - allow the speakers to bed in and check that the phase is correct (I checked and it is thankfully!)

I'll give them another week to see if they bed in - I must admit that I like a bassy sound but one that is clear and defined

I am considering returning the amp and getting the Marantz PM6005 instead. This was on my original list but it's currently £100 more than the Denon
 
Depending on how long you have been listening to the setup and I suspect it has been quite a while to let the sound equalise I don't think the sound is going to change a great deal from what you are hearing now.

Most Tannoys are voiced to wards the cleaner/brighter side of things in my experience and they need to be matched with the opposite tonally voiced amp say something like nad, cambridge audio, marantz, arcam unless you specifically like a bright/clean sound.

I bought the marantz 6005 for a secondary setup as my speakers tend to be exciteable and maybe could be described as clean sounding.

I certainly thing that system synergy overall would be possibly more firendlier to your ear going the marantz, cambridge audio, etc route then currently what you have.
 
GoRedwings19 has it pretty well summed up.

You have a lean sounding amp plus lean sounding speakers. The combination doesn't gel and it's a good example of why just buying and sticking together well reviewed Hi-Fi products doesn't really work. I'd also question why you felt the need to bi-wire. It "sterilizes" the sound even further and , IMO, creates a midrange hole that robs music of its communication.

Personally I don't rate the Denon amp. The sound lacks "soul". But the issue is the speakers. They need careful matching with source and amplification. A demo would have instantly revealed this.

Given time you'll get used to the sound. This is in part what happens during "bedding in"; you adjust to the new gear as much as the gear settling in. But I doubt you'll ever really be convinced by it. If there's an opportunity to return the gear and do the job right with demos then take it.
 
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Thanks for the advice GoRedwings19 and lucid

This is definitely a lesson learnt! I only biwired it as my old setup was biwired and I thought that it would always improve the sound - another example of my inexperience!

Looks like I should take the amp back as the pairing doesn't suit my tastes

I was wondering if I should get the Cambridge Audio Azur 351A instead? It's not reviewed on What Hi-Fi though but I wonder if it's a better match than the Marantz PM6005 to the Tannoys (What Hi-Fi says that the Marantz could be a little punchier)

Thanks again
 
I'd have thought that the speakers would be the main target for change. When listening to amp/speaker combos in a brief demo, 4/5ths of the initial character of the sound will be down to the speakers. The amps contribution will be far less significant unless comparing say transistors versus valves.

You can try this for yourself if you still have the old Hi-Fi. If you have a smartphone then download a free sound meter app. Set up the two amps with the either pair of speakers, but choose one pair only. Now play some music on the CA A5 and set the volume to give you around 85dB peaks. Play the same clip through the Denon and set the volume to match the same 85dB peaks. Swap to and fro between amps. There won't be much of a difference in sound.

Do the same experiment with one amp, but this time swap the speakers. This time you'll need to mark two positions on the volume dial to give the same 85dB peaks. Compare and contrast the two sets of speakers producing the same dynamic range and the difference in sound will be far more dramatic.

Don't get me wrong, amps do make a difference to the sound of a system. But at this sort of level their contribution is far less significant than the speakers.
 
Bi-wiring just for the sake of biwiring is not always a good thing. There are one or two exceptions to the case ala B&w speakers. No speaker I have heard apart from the B&W's benefit for better or worse more so than B&W speakers.

I have to agree with Mr. Lucid thinks of amps and interconnects as way of fine tuning the system but the speakers are primarily the core sound. So if it bright sounding or dark and you are changing the amps then really even though it will have a small impact on the sound it won't really affect the overall tonal balance of it.

Go in demo teh stuff in question and most importantly trust your own ears. If you find that something like the marantz 6005 has enough dynamics and punch for you then don;t be afraid to go that route if you find it more enjoyable then the Cambridge audio and vice versa.

Although the Richer sounds salesperson did get a chuckle out of me when he describes the marantz 6005 as bright sounding. From Emmlabs to Burmester and Wilson Audio to Nordost I have never ever heard, read anyone say that marantz are bright sounding from magazines to online forums and reviews. If anything their main strength is also their main critiscism they are on the warmer side of things. But anyways I digress.

Also while what hi fi serves as a great source of information and introduces you to new and upcoming products what hi fi has not been a credible source at least not in my view for a very very long time.

The only person you need to take advice from is yourself while listening nothing else matters.

Try out different combos while you are there at the same time. For example ask to listen to marantz 6005+Q Acoustics concept 20 or the Dali Zensor and cambridge audio combo see what other possiblities that might tickle your fancy.
 
Thanks for the replies

Unfortunately my old amp doesn't work any more (it went pop just before Christmas) and I don't trust my old speakers as when I wired up my Dad's old A1 amp they popped one speaker channel!

I do appreciate your advice - I'll definitely have to have a good listen. Oddly today it sounded better to me but this might just be the fact that I'm getting used to it myself!
 
Some speakers do take a good while to run in. My monitor audio gs10 sounded bloody terrible out of the box. After a week of running in they really started to shine. New they were very thin and bright, not plesent at all.

Every marantz amp I have ever listened to has been far from bright, they have been nice and full sounding but with a nice bit of detail. I'd be tempted to call up the shop, ask them if they will still accept a return if you give them a week to bed in. If after that your still not happy, get them changed. Always, always always listen before you buy. I've bought blind before and it's always been a mistake that has cost me money to fix.
 
Thanks kidloco

I've called the shop and they're happy to accept an exchange with no restocking fees or similar for another week. I've booked myself in for a listen on Sunday next week

Buying blind wasn't the right decision this time and I don't think I'll do it again in the future!

I must admit then when I was listening last night it did sound better - it could just be that the speakers are also taking some time to run in
 
In my personal experience hi-fi purchases have rarely been satisfying. One is always hoping that the next upgraded component will provide this transformational listening experience, which invariably never happens.

We read about component pairing, speaker positioning, cable quality, stand quality, source quality - all matter but there is no definitive correct set up or combination.

Obvious point I know, but the main variable in it all is personal preference. I can not justify purchasing top end, I somewhat think rightly or wrongly the 'emperors clothes' syndrome dominates the hi-fi scene once one gets to a certain level of components. The theory and engineering behind amplification is very simple and like I say there isn't much practical difference from a certain price point.

Anyhow, I prefer my Cambridge Azur 351R to my old Marantz PM6002 amplifier. Even though the Marantz in hi-fi stakes would probably be considered better given I'm using using a surround amp to listen to music - shock horror.

But I find having a subwoofer is a positive addition which I can run with the Azur receiver now. I have Kef stand mounts and they have always been a little too bright for my liking, particularly since I moved house and have a much larger lounge. So having the sub compensates.

Speaker position makes a huge difference so I would play around with that - move them closer to the walls perhaps - within reason. Having decent stands if you don't have any will add bass. You probably know this already but do not place speakers directly on a shelf or unit - you find the sound goes all muddy.
 
Gosh, just searched for Cambridge Azur 351R and it is only £99 at Richer Sounds - open box special in Birmingham branch that may suit you ajgoodfellow.

This was a £400 odd amp a few years ago, absolute bargain for £99.

I would recommend you arrange a listen to this also. Also depending on your set up it provides home cinema capabilities as well. I feel slightly ripped off, I think I got one for £250 not so long ago. Man I hate hi-fi so much :)
 
Wow - what a bargain! The Birmingham store is where I bought the kit actually and they've been great on the phone

They actually suggested for me to have a demo and that if I wasn't happy then to come back and try a different amp

I do have some stands thanks :-) Cheap Gale ones but probably better then none!
 
DOH!, theres me going on about Marantz and just noticed you had a Denon. The only experience I have with Denon amps is AV amps, but even that is not bright at all.

If you have some stands, and you do go in for a demo, give the Dali Zensors a good listen. I recently demo'd the 1 and 3 models and both were great.

That Cambridge Audio 351R amp is a bargain at £99 if your after an AV amp, but for music I can see a £150-£200 stereo amp being far better. The 351A is supposed to be a good stereo amp. Plus a quick look on AV forums sees that amp has a few tech issues. Quite common with modern AV amps with all the bells and whistles they have.

Is the Marantz PM6005 within your budget?
 
No problem - I was thinking of the Marantz :-)

Thanks for the updates - the Dali Zensor speakers get good reviews but are also £100 more than the Tannoys. Could be worth spending the money though

The PM6005 is in my new budget. I have realised that I'm not going to get what I wanted for sub £150 so I'm now looking at more expensive amps such as the £200 351A or £250 PM6005. I was even wondering about going for the £300 651A. It might be double what I had originally wanted to spend but I can just about stretch to it and it's better to have something that I'm happy with for a long time
 
Tis always the way with hi-fi. I did the same 6 months ago. Set a budget of £500. After demoing loads of gear ended up spending £1200. Good hifi will last for 20-30 years though.
 
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