Disenfranchisement and I.D. Cards

To be fair the cops do tend to get a bit more hands on once they lose their patience with obstructive people.

I'd rather just stop and see what they want, as I have in the past. Being difficult isn't worth the hassle. Can't they ask you to produce ID at a station at a later date if you really want to go down that route?
 
The police have no power to stop you and ask for ID. They might ask for your name, what you're doing in an area and where you're going but you're not required to stop and answer.
Unfortunately we had organisations like ACPO (Association of Chief Police Officers) and I think there is a successor body that write police guidelines without reference to the law or politicians. The Non-Crime Hate Incident (or whatever it is called) is a Chief Constable derived guideline that has created databases where actions that are non criminal are tracked permanently. In many spheres UK law looks to standards of good or best practice and quasi Governmental bodies like this can write standards I would worry that Judges will accept as good practice despite no law specifically empowering it. You'll get a decade of it taking place below the public conscientiousness before it becomes an issue. The police are hoovering up details in databases without being directed already and when caught out find everyway possible to avoid undoing what they shouldn't have been doing, DNA databases for instance.

I've said earlier in the thread I'm agnostic on Voter ID deeply against National ID cards.
 
I'd rather just stop and see what they want, as I have in the past. Being difficult isn't worth the hassle. Can't they ask you to produce ID at a station at a later date if you really want to go down that route?

So would I, I'd even provide them with ID if asked (and I had any with me). Legally though you're not required to stop and answer questions or provide ID.

For a stop and question you're not oblidged to answer any questions or provide ID, then or at a later date.
 
The police have no power to stop you and ask for ID. They might ask for your name, what you're doing in an area and where you're going but you're not required to stop and answer.

Presumably you don't have a driving licence due to your personal circumstances, why can't you obtain a passport?

Don't have anyone that can co sign the pics. 2 year requirement.
 
Don't have anyone that can co sign the pics. 2 year requirement.

So faking for a reference is OK but faking for a passport is a step too far?

I will be making up 2 years of experience to add to my C.V when I bother to try again with my current support worker who has offered to help me find work again. My support worker has already amended my information on their system to make it look like they have known me for 2 years so she can give me a reference. Nowadays every employer for any desk job wants a minimum of 2x2 year references / experiences.
 
However . . .
What exactly constitutes "reasonable grounds" is pretty vague in practice - as many young men of colour will attest.

"Expectation", like "Hope" springs eternal :rolleyes:

An out of order reply to your post, I guess your posts are being moderated.

Anyway, there's a whole different discussion about the use of stop and search but it's a different scenario to being stopped and questioned.
 
Do they still have that bit where if you move, you have to notify the police? And get your car re-registered at the new home, complete with new plates? I should point out, this used to be far everyone, not just immigrants.

I emailed my kid in Bielefeld, he said that some of that was partially true a few years ago.
You have to register your new address at the new council where you’ve moved to, as they’ll issue you a new ID card, and make sure that you go on the electoral roll.
A car no longer has to be re-registered, e.g. one of my grandsons has a car with Bielefeld plates, which has the prefix BI, but he has an apartment in Kleve, where the vehicle registration prefix is KLE, he switches back and forth between Kleve and Bielefeld, probably coming back to mum when he wants his laundry done.
His Personalausweis, (I.D. card), and driving licence bear his Bielefeld address and he’s on the electoral roll there.
 
So still no compelling argument for ID cards then.

I’ve never argued for them, it just wouldn’t bother me to have one, and I can’t understand the fear, bordering on unfounded terror of having to carry an I.D. card.
You’d think that it was the first step toward the gulag.
 
I’ve never argued for them, it just wouldn’t bother me to have one, and I can’t understand the fear, bordering on unfounded terror of having to carry an I.D. card.
You’d think that it was the first step toward the gulag.

I dont object to having an id card, though personally I have never carried or needed ID. The objection stems from the poor reasoning behind it, voter fraud, its just a lie. Unless the cards are free, mandatory or dirt cheap it will stop some people voting.

So for me its a colossal waste of time and money.
 
Just look at China to see what COVID/ID passports will bring, people tracked where ever they go. It's basically an assault on privacy and further expansion of the surveillance state.

Voter ID isn't, nobody knows if drop in turnout following implementation of voter ID is down to lazy or uneducated people being unable to get it or actual cheating being stopped. If people are too lazy or stupid to get ID to vote then they are probably too lazy or stupid to be making an educated decision at the ballot box anyway. That's probably why Labour and US Democrat party are so opposed to it and equally want the voting age lowered all of the time as they just offer free stuff every election. Voter ID will also hurt them in terms of using mass immigration as a voter base.
 
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I dont object to having an id card, though personally I have never carried or needed ID. The objection stems from the poor reasoning behind it, voter fraud, its just a lie. Unless the cards are free, mandatory or dirt cheap it will stop some people voting.

So for me its a colossal waste of time and money.

I went to a polling station in Méricourt-sous-Lens in France with one of my cousin’s sons some years ago.
After he voted I asked him if he’d had to show his Carte d’Identité in order to vote, he said no, just his polling card, with his name and address on, so I asked how he’d got the polling card.
He said that French citizens have to produce their I.D. to get on the electoral roll, and then the polling card is sent to their address, this seemed vaguely lax to me, so I asked his father what were the purposes of his I.D. card.
He initially said that it was proof that you were who you said you were, but then enlarged that to say that they’re used by people wishing to open a bank account, buy insurance etc., or if you made a purchase using a cheque, the I.D. card proved that you were the person named on the cheque.
I said that it seemed strange that you didn’t have to show it to vote, he just shrugged, and said, “Don’t ask me, ask the government.”
I asked my kid who lives in Germany whether he had to keep showing his I.D. to cops every other day, he said that the only time a cop had asked to see it, was when he’d crossed the road at a junction where the lights were green, they take a dim view of jaywalking in Germany.
He’d produced his driving licence, but the cop wanted to check it against his I.D., which was weird, as it carries an identical photo.
The cop then said that his name would go on a computer, and if he was caught jaywalking again he could possibly be given penalty points on his driving licence!
When I scoffed at that, he said that he reckoned that the cop was winding him up, because the cop had noticed that he had an English Christian name, and an obvious French surname.
 
I've had an ID card ever since I was 12 I think (Cyprus).

Never asked for it by anyone ever, apart from:

I'm voting.
I'm using government services.
I'm travelling within the EU.

My parents don't have passports and just travel using ID cards, so much easier. No "**** forgot my passport at home", it's always in your wallet. My new one is fully biometric as well, so once the new ID gates pop up I'll be able to use it there as well, so even quicker. Format wise, it is very similar to a UK driver's licence.
 
Same. Since moving to Sweden I've had an id card and as a non driver i think it's great.

Practically every service here is linked to your social security number and verified by electronic id issued from your bank.

Big brother is watching me, but it's so convenient. There is a lot of trust put into the system which can lead to blatant frauds bit being a small country it's not huge numbers.

It also makes ownership of a modern mobile telephone practically essential.
 
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