Do Focus RS's have Traction Control..?

Virdi · 26 Mar 2007 at 09:18

Hi all,

... Just wanted to know if Focus RS's have Traction Control?

Thanks

Dave77 · 26 Mar 2007 at 09:38

I dont think they do, but they do have a Quaife LSD which helps with power delivery.

Dup · 26 Mar 2007 at 09:49

What's with the traction control questions?

The most you'll get on an FWD car is ESP like the Honda Jazz which brakes independant corners to stabalise the car.

The 200bhp+ FWD hatches use LSD technology to help with traction and uprated suspension parts for stability. I hear the Focus RS LSD can be a hindrence when driving in normal traffic however.

This may be of some assistanse for you

Dolph · 26 Mar 2007 at 10:48

Dup said:
What's with the traction control questions?

The most you'll get on an FWD car is ESP like the Honda Jazz which brakes independant corners to stabalise the car.

The 200bhp+ FWD hatches use LSD technology to help with traction and uprated suspension parts for stability. I hear the Focus RS LSD can be a hindrence when driving in normal traffic however.

This may be of some assistanse for you

Actually, the vast majority of FWD hot hatches use standard TC and ESP systems, the only ones currently that have an LSD are the Focus RS and the Renault megane 230 F1 edition, afaik. The Mazda 3MPS has a electronic diff thing, but that's slightly different.

Traction control tends to be horrible anyway IMO, because it doesn't help you put the power down, it simply cuts the power, which isn't the same thing at all.

Serj · 26 Mar 2007 at 10:55

Dolph said:
Traction control tends to be horrible anyway IMO, because it doesn't help you put the power down, it simply cuts the power, which isn't the same thing at all.

So, in essence, an LSD is better than simply traction control? As LSD dishes out the power to the wheel(s) with the most grip whereas TC just cuts power to stop the wheel from losing traction?

Hawk Tuah · 26 Mar 2007 at 10:59

Dolph said:
Actually, the vast majority of FWD hot hatches use standard TC and ESP systems, the only ones currently that have an LSD are the Focus RS and the Renault megane 230 F1 edition, afaik.

Oh and
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Hawk Tuah · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:03

Serj said:
So, in essence, an LSD is better than simply traction control? As LSD dishes out the power to the wheel(s) with the most grip

Not quite.

On a normal FWD car, if you raise one of the front wheels off the ground and accelerate, 99% of all the power will be sent to the wheel off the ground.

A limited slip differential limits the speed differential between the front wheels by some means or another. My car for example has a viscous diff. Between my front wheels is a box with a thick oily compound in it. This allows the wheels to turn independantly, however it will stop one wheel going much faster than the other. So if you lifted one of my front wheels off the ground, and accelerated, whilst the majority of the power will go to the wheel off the ground, a fair bit of power will still be sent to the wheel with grip.

There are more 'advanced' LSD's, but essentially they all do the same thing.

What traction control will do is apply braking force to the wheel when it spins too fast. This actively puts more of the available power to the wheel on the other side of the axle. Of course it is doing this by applying the brakes, so has its drawbacks too.

Dolph · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:06

Serj said:
So, in essence, an LSD is better than simply traction control? As LSD dishes out the power to the wheel(s) with the most grip whereas TC just cuts power to stop the wheel from losing traction?

I would say so, it's one of the reasons I've always really liked my current car. An LSD can't kill wheelspin entirely, but it can ensure the maximum power possible is put down by moving the torque between the driven wheels.

Bug One's explaination of how an LSD works it pretty much spot on.

Bug One said:
What traction control will do is apply braking force to the wheel when it spins to fast. This actively puts more of the available power to the wheel on the other side of the axle. Of course it is doing this by applying the brakes, so has its drawbacks too.

That's one way TC works, the other is by simply modulating the engine power (ie cutting the throttle) to prevent slipping. The type described above isn't too bad, the type that cuts the engine power is seriously annoying.

Dolph · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:06

Bug One said:
Oh and
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I could have included the Civic 1.8 VTi in the list too, but I thought I'd keep it recent

Hawk Tuah · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:08

Dolph said:
I could have included the Civic 1.8 VTi in the list too, but I thought I'd keep it recent

And its technically not a hot hatch either.

Hawk Tuah · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:12

Virdi said:
Hi all,

... Just wanted to know if Focus RS's have Traction Control?

Thanks

Any car can have traction control if you want it.

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control

Jonnycoupe · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:34

Bug One said:
Not quite.

On a normal FWD car, if you raise one of the front wheels off the ground and accelerate, 99% of all the power will be sent to the wheel off the ground.

A limited slip differential limits the speed differential between the front wheels by some means or another. My car for example has a viscous diff. Between my front wheels is a box with a thick oily compound in it. This allows the wheels to turn independantly, however it will stop one wheel going much faster than the other. So if you lifted one of my front wheels off the ground, and accelerated, whilst the majority of the power will go to the wheel off the ground, a fair bit of power will still be sent to the wheel with grip.

There are more 'advanced' LSD's, but essentially they all do the same thing.

What traction control will do is apply braking force to the wheel when it spins too fast. This actively puts more of the available power to the wheel on the other side of the axle. Of course it is doing this by applying the brakes, so has its drawbacks too.

If thats actually happening to the point that TC is better than an LSD then a serious look at the suspension setup would be the way to go, not spending cash on some electronics.

Applying brakes is a pretty advanced setup beyond most aftermarket fitments, your boggo racelogic will just cut the ignition or fuel to kill power to maintain traction. Nice enough for the playstation brigade i guess.

Hawk Tuah · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:40

Jonnycoupe said:
If thats actually happening to the point that TC is better than an LSD then a serious look at the suspension setup would be the way to go, not spending cash on some electronics.

Applying brakes is a pretty advanced setup beyond most aftermarket fitments, your boggo racelogic will just cut the ignition or fuel to kill power to maintain traction. Nice enough for the playstation brigade i guess.

I thought they worked utilising the ABS. I know one of the Fiat Coupe guys who's fitted TC has it on his ABS.

Dolph · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:45

Bug One said:
I thought they worked utilising the ABS. I know one of the Fiat Coupe guys who's fitted TC has it on his ABS.

That system you linked to definitely works by cutting the fuel/spark.

http://www.racelogic.co.uk/?show=Traction_Control-Technical-How_it_Works

It uses the ABS sensors to sense the wheel speed, not to activate the brakes.

Goliath · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:51

Virdi said:
Hi all,

... Just wanted to know if Focus RS's have Traction Control?

Thanks

No, just your right foot

The only electronic driver aid is ABS, as mentioned there is a Quaife LSD as a mechanical aid. In addition, boost is limited in 1st and 2nd gears.

Jonnycoupe · 26 Mar 2007 at 11:57

Bug One said:
I thought they worked utilising the ABS. I know one of the Fiat Coupe guys who's fitted TC has it on his ABS.

Yes to measure wheel speed. Nothing more fancy than that.

EDIT: Dolph beat me to it.

LSD are the definate traction solution for a FWD. Why cut 'push on undertseer' by killing the power, a driver could do that. Fit an LSD and you get much better car rotation under power = faster car. Helictical torque sensing LSD's like the Quaiffe and Torsen make a huge difference to the car feel, especially in the wet.

Simon · 26 Mar 2007 at 12:55

Decent replies in this thread

Dup said:
I hear the Focus RS LSD can be a hindrence when driving in normal traffic however.

Load of rubbish. Normal traffic won't even use the effects of an LSD.

Dup · 26 Mar 2007 at 13:20

Simon said:
Decent replies in this thread

Load of rubbish. Normal traffic won't even use the effects of an LSD.

In the video I linked Tiff described the car as pulling unexpectedly with the curvature of the road etc.

Sargeantpepper · 26 Mar 2007 at 13:22

Surely this is only an issue if say the car came on boost round a bend?

Jonnycoupe · 26 Mar 2007 at 13:24

Dup said:
In the video I linked Tiff described the car as pulling unexpectedly with the curvature of the road etc.

Press car with some mad geometry. Take a look at Evo they have totally changed there option after driving the road spec car. Its as settled as any other car with 18" wheels.