Do you think Islam is British?

Yas786 · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:25

Arcade Fire said:
You trust your experience of being in Canada a few times over official statistics? You're really digging your own grave here, and this one little thing that you won't admit you're wrong about is making the rest of your argument look stupid.

Well not over official figures but looking at them yourself , you have to admit that the population of muslims compared to the uk is a lot smaller than what people here are saying.

But i havent said nor implied that personal experience counts more for the official stats...thats a highly stupid thing to say and pretty silly of you to make out that i said such a thing. If anything i said my experience of being in Canada quite a few times a yr gives me the insight to see just how many muslims there are over there and sorry but there arent as many muslims as there are here. But im sure over the next 10-15 yrs the population will grow in accordance.

Surfer said:
lol cold hard figures?

Youve let yourself down in this one for future discussions imo.

Fair enough to agree to disagree on matters of opinion and fair enough if you disputed the statistics involved.

But you're saying your own individual experience counts more than an objective study on the amount of Muslims in Canada. Its not about whether DD thinks he's right or whether you think you are right its simple logic Or Arithmetic in this case

I dont see how much clearer it can get..uhmmm lol ?

LOL yes cold hard figures..is that a problem for you??.

Again i never said nor implied that my personal experience counts for more than official stats...like i said it would be highly silly of me to do so. Whats even more sillier is a few people here have made out that i have said such a thing lol...now that is silly.

Simple logic eh??...or arithemetic??...sadly i was never that good at percentages at school but that never stopped me from seeing that 2% and 2.8% isnt a large difference but rather 780k compared to 1.25 million is a big difference. Like i said it doesnt take a retard to figure that out does it now??..or is a case that you still dont get it??.

Seriously though im not that dumb to even contemplate my experience counts for more than official statistics lol.

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:26

Arcade Fire said:
To play devil's advocate though, 2.8% as compared to 2.0% means that relative to the total population, there are 40% more Muslims living in Britain than in Canada.

Edit: f;b!

well 2006 estimates of Canada are even higher 2.5% and 2.8% UK. Sure the UK has more but not by much. Certainly not worth arguing about lol or not conceding on.

I guess it depends on the Muslim population density in the respective countries. Perhaps Spawn visited an area of Canada which was high in Muslim density

hence his stubbornness in the face of logic?

Yas786 · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:26

JohnnyG said:
Hmmm, now where's that cricket thread...

touche JG touche

. Although in that thread i did apologise for making those generalisations...but anyways lets not get involved in that shall we??.

Think this topic has gone far OT.

Apologies to the OP

.

Yas786 · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:29

Surfer said:
well 2006 estimates of Canada are even higher 2.5% and 2.8% UK. Sure the UK has more but not by much. Certainly not worth arguing about lol or not conceding on.

I guess it depends on the Muslim population density in the respective countries. Perhaps Spawn visited an area of Canada which was high in Muslim density hence his stubbornness in the face of logic.

LOL there isnt an area in Canada that i have seen that has high density of muslims.

Perhaps you should take a trip there and see for yourself eh??. Instead of rambling on and on and on about something you clearly have no idea on

.

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:44

Spawn said:
LOL yes cold hard figures..is that a problem for you??.

Again i never said nor implied that my personal experience counts for more than official stats...like i said it would be highly silly of me to do so. Whats even more sillier is a few people here have made out that i have said such a thing lol...now that is silly.

Simple logic eh??...or arithemetic??...sadly i was never that good at percentages at school but that never stopped me from seeing that 2% and 2.8% isnt a large difference but rather 780k compared to 1.25 million is a big difference. Like i said it doesnt take a retard to figure that out does it now??..or is a case that you still dont get it??.

Seriously though im not that dumb to even contemplate my experience counts for more than official statistics lol.

I dunno from what you said seemed pretty clear that you were counting your own experience as a factor rather than the statistics. Lets remind ourselves what you said

Spawn said:
I look at cold hard figures, they tend to show a much better picture plus having first hand experience of being in Canada quite a few times of the yr also gives me that advantage

but rather 780k compared to 1.25 million is a big difference.

Depends on the overall population.

For example if it was ratio 780k:900k population and 1.25mill:1billion population then its simple arithmetic to conclude that there is more Muslims in the former given the overall population of that country.

Its the same sort of case here albeit less exaggerated (so the 40% figure that is quoted is very much misleading) But the main point is they are very similar so as to be almost equivalent on a practical level.

No idea why you cant see it unless your just playing along i guess lol

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:48

Spawn said:
Perhaps you should take a trip there and see for yourself eh??. Instead of rambling on and on and on about something you clearly have no idea on.

You see this isnt even about knowledge. This isnt a case where you or me or anyone fails because of lack of information.

Only an understanding of the basic rules of arithmetic is necessary.

If you can answer the following question then you should be able to get it

1+1 = ?

Now take your time now.

cleanbluesky · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:51

Spawn said:
LOL there isnt an area in Canada that i have seen that has high density of muslims.

Perhaps you should take a trip there and see for yourself eh??. Instead of rambling on and on and on about something you clearly have no idea on.

Spawn has a point (perhaps its poorly expressed), Muslims in Canada may be far more dispersed than in the UK - where places like East London and Bradford are choc full of Muslimy goodness.

manoz · 10 Jul 2007 at 16:55

cleanbluesky said:
Spawn has a point (perhaps its poorly expressed), Muslims in Canada may be far more dispersed than in the UK - where places like East London and Bradford are choc full of Muslimy goodness.

choc as in chocolate? racist!

j/k

Surfer · 10 Jul 2007 at 18:16

cleanbluesky said:
Spawn has a point (perhaps its poorly expressed), Muslims in Canada may be far more dispersed than in the UK - where places like East London and Bradford are choc full of Muslimy goodness.

Indeed it may be. But i never said Canada's Muslim population is more disperse or less disperse. I merely posed the question

Do we have some facts to illustrate the Muslim population density of both the UK and Canada?

Efour · 10 Jul 2007 at 18:18

try wiki it has ALL the answers to muslims

VIRII · 10 Jul 2007 at 19:28

JimmyEatWorms said:
It's a 40% difference. So, pro-rata, there are 40% more muslims in the UK than in Canada. I'd say that's quite a significant difference.

Then you'd be gobsmackingly wrong

If 2% of Canada and 2.8% of the Uk population are muslim then the figures are very, very similar.
If you wish to play with numbers then 97.2% of the UK are not muslim and 98% of Canada are not muslim which means that the percentages of non muslims in each country are astoundingly similar and ergo the percentages of muslims in each country are astoundingly similar.
I take it that maths isn't your thing.

VIRII · 10 Jul 2007 at 19:30

Arcade Fire said:
To play devil's advocate though, 2.8% as compared to 2.0% means that relative to the total population, there are 40% more Muslims living in Britain than in Canada.

Edit: f;b!

Except DD's figures were comparing percentages of the population instead of percentages of percentages which as I've shown above can be inverted quite happily

VIRII · 10 Jul 2007 at 19:32

Spawn said:
As i said before i dont deal with percentages, even in my job...i get a better picture with cold hard figures.

Percentages and ratios are cold hard figures......

Van_Dammesque · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:10

Well I may be late with this but 2.8% is roughly the same as 2%, per hundred of course!

Eh? Is this the point of the argument that 2 is not close to 2.8%?????

Mekrel · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:22

Islam isn't British, and will never be British.

There are of course Muslims who can live the western life and still practice Islam but an a whole, majority still practice Islam to the very letter which in my opinion is a very out dated religion.

Every religion has to modernise with the times and a lot have, but I feel the stubborn and aggressive nature of Islam and it's followers will always stop it from being integrated and accepted by the west.

cheets64 · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:28

Still on about this, crazy.

Arcade Fire · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:35

VIRII said:
If 2% of Canada and 2.8% of the Uk population are muslim then the figures are very, very similar.
If you wish to play with numbers then 97.2% of the UK are not muslim and 98% of Canada are not muslim which means that the percentages of non muslims in each country are astoundingly similar and ergo the percentages of muslims in each country are astoundingly similar.
I take it that maths isn't your thing.

Au contraire, I'd say that it's you who needs to go back to school. All that you've done is offered an alernative viewpoint which makes the data sound different - a favourite trick of statisticians, and indeed a trick worthy of Mr. A. Blair himself.

Your argument does absolutely nothing to change the fact that a randomly picked person in the UK is 40% more likely to be a Muslim than a randomly picked person in Canada. You've committed the fallacy of assuming that if 1-p and 1-q are the same order of magnitude (about 1 in this case) then it follows that p and q are the same order of magnitude. This is quite patently false, as can be seen by considering the case p=0.01 and q=0.00001. In this case 1-p and 1-q are both very close to 1, but p is a thousand times bigger than q!

Nitefly · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:43

The argument of these figures is ridiculous. Since the difference is so small in terms of the population, I would assume for discussion both Countries would have equal proportions of Muslims.

In Country A, a survey of 100 people showed 2 out of 100 were Muslim.

In country B, a survey of 100 people showed 3 out of 100 were Muslim.

Whoop-de-do Basil!

If Country A had 50 of 100 Muslim whilst B had 70 of 100 Muslim, you might be onto something remotely significant.

Monkey Puzzle · 10 Jul 2007 at 23:47

Well put Arcade fire - why is the difference between relative and absolute amounts causing so much argument :confused:

Surfer · 11 Jul 2007 at 00:00

Monkey Puzzle said:
Well put Arcade fire - why is the difference between relative and absolute amounts causing so much argument

because Spawn when confronted by clear statistics which did a fair job of representating the state of affairs (as put by DD) decided to try some statistical jiggery pokery with them rather than change his position and mind. He couldnt stand to lose face or lose the argument i guess.