Do you worry about what others earn?

[Rroff]

So you don't understand the Swiss system... that's fine... doesn't mean it isn't achievable in the UK.

It is... it's just out structure rewards hoarders and penalises workers.

It's as simple as capping the wages of the highest earners in a company in relation to it's lowest earners... that raises the wages of the lowest earners so that the highest earners can earn more and dramatically increases that taxes gains from general employment, even at a lower tax rate.

It also helps that the Swiss don't invade other countries for no good reason at their cost and murder the populous... like we do... being the world terrorist at partnering with the USA in that murderous venture is a significant expense... especially when you consider the propaganda that has to be fed to the general populous.

Interesting rant at the end there

 

[Ayahuasca]

Indeed, criticises you for not knowing the system yet makes one simple point of the Swiss system, that doesn't discuss the ins and outs of how they can cap high earners.

Deluded if you think the UK can just simply copy that and it would all work out.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Interesting rant at the end there

You... didn't say I was wrong...

 

[Rroff]

Indeed, criticises you for not knowing the system yet makes one simple point of the Swiss system, that doesn't discuss the ins and outs of how they can cap high earners.

Deluded if you think the UK can just simply copy that and it would all work out.

Somewhat off topic but related to the Swiss I find people's perception of them when it comes to military and peace somewhat distorted from the reality - they've generally been above normal in level of preparation with more of a focus on defensive measures than most countries which is one of the reasons they've been able to enjoy a relatively peaceful existence. One of the many reasons they stayed "neutral" through WW2 was that the rushed 600,000 soldiers to the border and dug in within 3 days of general war being declared and had read the way things were going in the few years before and started building up their defensive capabilities while everyone else was in denial and cutting theirs. (That and they played both sides and it was useful for the Germans to have high end parts for their aircraft, etc. manufactured there where they couldn't easily be bombed by allied forces).

You... didn't say I was wrong...

Though there have been incidents we don't generally go around murdering the populous (well not in this century and the later half of the last) - the only thing I find shameful about Afghanistan is the way we've pulled out - there were some parts under what was essentially British mandate where the population was quite happy with the rebuilding and restructuring of life - until we just upped and left them with the Taliban back in days later undoing it all.

 

[crinkleshoes]

Somewhat off topic but related to the Swiss I find people's perception of them when it comes to military and peace somewhat distorted from the reality - they've generally been above normal in level of preparation with more of a focus on defensive measures than most countries which is one of the reasons they've been able to enjoy a relatively peaceful existence. One of the many reasons they stayed "neutral" through WW2 was that the rushed 600,000 soldiers to the border and dug in within 3 days of general war being declared and had read the way things were going in the few years before and started building up their defensive capabilities while everyone else was in denial and cutting theirs. (That and they played both sides and it was useful for the German's to have high end parts for their aircraft, etc. manufactured there where they couldn't easily be bombed by allied forces).

Yeah... they have a distinct habit of common-sense...

They've basically turned the majority of their populous into reserve soldiers.

Yet use it for defensice purposes only... and don't send any as an invasive force into middle-eastern countries to steal oil, gold or instil a western-focused regime.

 

[AHarvey]

I'm sitting here until 10 pm, working with 4 other people.

One is a team leader, one is second line and the other 2 have been here 2 & 5 years compared to my 6 months.

TL is going to be on more, it's a different job. 2nd line, his knowledge is immense and he's worth every penny of whatever they pay him.

Of the 3 left, I'm on £24k a year @ 36 years old. The guy to my right is on £34k and took this job from a £60k job @ a major bank and the guy behind me probably similar levels. These guys know stuff I don't but I've also managed to fix things they both admitted they wouldn't have known where to start. I've inspired them to dig deeper into the job and develop scripts to streamline what we do. I know I am valuable but I'm also learning a lot, it's a massive system.

I'm on the student package and came from a job earning £16k for running 400+ staff members computer systems, phones etc (massively underpaid which is why I left).

Yes it bothers me I'm not earning as much, but fully understand why and accept that. I'll push for more here and have the option to move to other SQL jobs, this was my foot in the door. I'm also earning 50% more than I was 8 months ago.

 

[Rroff]

I'm currently paid about 30% less than what the role I'm in normally pays - on the other hand one of the other managers has voluntarily taken on a couple of bits of the job that I don't enjoy and apparently he does - and I've got it pretty sweet in terms of setup - hours/days I'm working, etc. which handily fits in with some limitations outside of work (though it does mean doing some nights which sucks) which would likely all come under scrutiny if I rocked the boat :s

 

[A2Z]

I know exactly how much everyone in my company earns as there is a PDF document with every single job title and the exact pay. Everyone in the same role gets paid the same.

Luckily we all get paid quite well for what we do, mostly thanks to the unions. Hopefully February will have a nice and high RPI as whatever it is +0.25% will be everyone's pay rise

 

[dowie]

In answer to the question in the title of the OP - no I don't worry about what others earn, I think if I did then I'd probably have become a contractor years ago and my annual income would have hit a local maximum, as it happens I didn't choose that path and I think the path I have chosen will potentially lead to a larger area under the curve in the long run. (Of course I could well be wrong and might look back in 10-20 years time with some regret, then again money isn't everything and I'm fairly confident that even if perhaps earnings could have been maximised some other way I'll have a more interesting time on the route I'm taking now)

In answer to the the OP itself I'd disagree with both you and your friend

Mate told me he recently applied for a job and during the application it asked for "desired salary". I jumped straight in and said that in those situations I always worked out what I'd want to earn, so a salary that I was happy with and then maybe add a little to it, so around 10% and see how the negotiations went.
Also said that it was just a number so that they knew if you were in the right "ballpark" - I myself have applied for jobs and then received a response "We would be unable to offer your desired salary" and that was the end of that.
Mate started telling me he'd have to know what others were on, he would be researching, seeing what averages would be etc.
I said surely it doesn't matter what others earn - just earn a salary you are happy to, something you're happy getting out of bed for....
But apparently I'm leaving myself open to "worry and depression my co-workers are earning more than me...."

I wouldn't consider it a cause for worry/depression, that is a bit extreme, maybe some annoyance if they are but that is about it, you can always move or ask for more (though generally better to ask for more before starting a job than when already committed to it at a particular salary).

Ref: desired salary from your perspective, you've explained to him that what you'd do is put in your desired salary? I think your friend is correct, you should try to keep yourself informed of market rates for the role, be aware of what you're worth in a role like that. This isn't out of "worry" per say but just common sense to ensure you get more money if it is available for you.

It is worthwhile talking to recruiters even when you're not looking for a job, it is also worthwhile to occasionally attend interviews (again even if you're not looking for a job) - if they make you an offer and you don't really want to leave you can just turn it down... however you never know, even if you're not looking you might well get surprised... you either get confirmation that you're earning market rates and some employer you're not interested in will maybe offer you a a small raise to jump ship or you find out that you're undervalued, these guys you were just using for information are impressed with you and make you an offer that represents a big raise and that suddenly changes things causing you to quit your current job.

You also get an indication of how quickly/easily you could move in future if needed... or indeed, if you get negative experiences then you find out what you need to work on in order to make sure you'll be more employable in future if you need to move.

Lastly re: stating a desired figure, if you really don't know then try to avoid giving one and ditto to your current salary - this is easier said than done with recruiters these days (on an online form you could attempt to just enter some obviously nonsense figure like '1' and move to the next box). Obviously if it is a job you really want at your dream company then you'll probably play the game for fear of getting rejected at an early stage over a silly detail... however if you're already in a job you enjoy and are just going to an interview/chucking in an application for the reasons mentioned above then it becomes far easier to not play the game with the recruiter/online form/hiring manager.

So you don't understand the Swiss system... that's fine... doesn't mean it isn't achievable in the UK.

It is... it's just out structure rewards hoarders and penalises workers.

It's as simple as capping the wages of the highest earners in a company in relation to it's lowest earners... that raises the wages of the lowest earners so that the highest earners can earn more and dramatically increases that taxes gains from general employment, even at a lower tax rate.

[citation needed]

I thought they voted against this?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...to-limit-executives-pay-idUSBRE9AN0BW20131124

Swiss voters rejected a proposal on Sunday to cap the salaries of top executives at 12 times that of a company’s lowest wage, heeding warnings from industry leaders that the measure could harm the country’s economy.

 

[stoofa]

Thanks all for your responses - made for an interesting read this morning.
I definitely look to see what I'm worth - I don't think I ever undervalue myself and I think you'd be silly to go into a job pitching yourself far too low.
However many positions have quite a varied pay grade. I work in IT and doing the same job for say a School, small company, large company, multinational would all pay quite different amounts. However I have that figure in mind and that is where I pitch and begin my negotiations.
It's just I couldn't give a damn what anybody else is earning. If I suddenly found somebody doing the same job as me was earning more, I'm sure anybody would suddenly feel something in the stomach, but as long as I'm earning what I want to be earning, I refuse to let life stress me

Cheers all.

 

[Semple]

I work in an environment where I do the same job as two other people. One of them earns around £7000 more than me, and the other around £4000 more than me. Whilst I'd obviously like to earn more and match them, I feel like I'm doing ok for myself and admittedly sometimes use the different as an unspoken excuse not to join in so much with work things (training, extra curricular shindigs, etc...)

I think it's important that people doing similar jobs should earn around the same amount, so in a way it is important to know what others earn so that your peace with yourself isn't being taken advantage of.

That's quite tricky though, as most companies will also base salaries on years of experience too. In my team i'm the youngest (by some margin), and have also only been here for ~5 years. There's other guys in my team who have been here 20/30/35 years, so even though i do an identical role, and in some areas have more specialist knowledge, i know that i don't earn as much as they do.

 

[mid_gen]

I work in an environment where I do the same job as two other people. One of them earns around £7000 more than me, and the other around £4000 more than me. Whilst I'd obviously like to earn more and match them, I feel like I'm doing ok for myself and admittedly sometimes use the different as an unspoken excuse not to join in so much with work things (training, extra curricular shindigs, etc...)

Perhaps if you joined in with the trainings and extra curricularly shindigs and you might get paid the same?

Taking training that is on offer is an absolute no-brainer. Any money the company spends on training you is money invested in you and gives them a financial incentive to keep you, which you can exploit when you ask for a payrise.

 

[x-st]

Perhaps if you joined in with the trainings and extra curricularly shindigs and you might get paid the same?

I did for 3 years....I just got tired of all the in-jokes as I don't work at the main location.

I work in a small business which pretty much doesn't do pay rises. Once you start unless something radical happens you'd best be happy with your salary.

 

[randomshenans]

I really don't care about others, the only reason I would care is if it helped dictate my own value, but I also know that I've negotiated very hard in my current role, so probably get more than most of my peers. If I feel under valued, I'll fight for more. If the market says I can't demand more, it's time for me to skill up and develop myself so I can. No point worrying about anyone else's business.

 

[jaybee]

People - even the closest colleagues I have ever had - generally just don't discuss it. There has only been occasions where people have let slip an approximate amount that someone is "probably on". I've worked along side contractors doing awful work where I've had to hand hold them or take over. Some of them were on about 5 times what I got paid as an employee. I've worked with PMs and consultants on £1000 day rates. Some of the PMs could not even organize a drink down the pub.

Quote from a Project manager complaining about things getting out of control with all of the different work streams and people to manage on his project: "We're going to need someone to manage all this".
Yep, this is the kind of people I deal with.

I've also worked with silver haired surfers waiting out for that redundancy, absolutely bitter, slopey shouldered, lazy legacy staff on ridiculous pay due to pay rises over many years, on a "bespoke" amount of pay outside of any normal grading system.
The last person I worked with like this I found out just before I left (I was leaving anyway) that he was on about 10k per year more than me despite that I led the team and would have become his line manager had I stayed. He worked from home constantly and generally took the mick.

What is the point in this rant? To say that you must not stress about what others are on! It's really unhealthy and beyond your control in 99% of situations. If you ever go to HR and say you want a pay rise because person X is on Y, they will respond with "we can't discuss other people's pay even if they told you what they are paid". Then they'll explain why you can't have a pay rise and you'll feel a tool.

 

[dowie]

That's quite tricky though, as most companies will also base salaries on years of experience too. In my team i'm the youngest (by some margin), and have also only been here for ~5 years. There's other guys in my team who have been here 20/30/35 years, so even though i do an identical role, and in some areas have more specialist knowledge, i know that i don't earn as much as they do.

I'm not sure that is necessarily because the company bases salaries on years of experience but rather those people have simply been around for longer and happen to have accumulated a higher salary... perhaps during some high growth years there were some fat pay rises handed out etc... I doubt that an old external hire currently earning less than the going rate for the job at the new company would necessarily get a significantly higher raise than usually offered relative to his/her current salary upon joining a new company simply because he's a bit older. They're likely to just pay him/her based on their current salary - in most cases, for an older/more experience hire this will of course tend to be higher, but it isn't always.

 

[regulus]

Nope. Don't care in the slightest what others earn, what their job titles are, whose you-know-what they're sucking on - I keep myself to myself. Watching my peers just burn money like it's cheap firewood on crap and trinkets, I'm probably better off financially anyway

 

[subbytna]

Couldn't care less. I work to live, I don't live to work. As long as I can eat food and have a roof over my head, what someone else earns doesn't interest me.

 

[Energize]

I've worked in both the public sector and private sector and I'm always surprised at how backwards private sector employers tend to be. So often in employment contracts I see things like "no discussion of salary" etc, they make salary into a big issue when in the public sector where everyone knows everyone elses salary no one actually cares.

 

[Dan103]

With regard to work colleagues i would expect to paid in line with those doing the same job as me and if i can justify getting paid more i will look to.

With regard to friends sometimes i do wonder whether they dont earn what i expect them to earn or whether its the lifestyle they lead being that my close friends are a civil engineer, a mechanical engineer and a lecturer of engineering yet always seem to be without money and i would expect them to be earning maybe 20-30% more than what i am on....