Caporegime
That would be something I agree with entirely!
Something I've very recently encountered first hand (mentioned it in a thread on here actually).
Does Google Chief's bashfulness prove pay at the top is skewed.
- Thread starter estebanrey
- Start date
That would be something I agree with entirely!
Something I've very recently encountered first hand (mentioned it in a thread on here actually).
- Joined
- 9 Apr 2012
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Well look at Steve Jobs for a start. Before him, Apple was failing, after he returned, they were successful again.
on the contrary that is often a very important management skill
There's a difference between getting the best out of a team and knowing when a task is going to be best completed by delegating it (which is what I think would be an example of an important management skill), and using a strong team to cover for your own failings.
I wouldn't expect to be managed by someone who can do all of the things I do, as long as they could represent my interests to the people directly above them effectively and allowed me to get on with my job. This is very different to having a line manager that is happy to take credit for your own work and make no effort to understand what you actually do.
Caporegime
That's one example. I'm not saying there are no good CEO's, I'm saying however that many in the position are probably not the shining beacon they make themselves out to be.
Just look at how many businesses in the UK fail every year.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...f-of-UK-start-ups-fail-within-five-years.html
Have you any experience with working with a good cross section of CEO's?
tis perfectly possible for a manager to represent his team while also taking full credit for everything they do
some managers are total crap some aren't... some are crap from just one perspective (bottom up) - i.e. ones that aren't so good with their team but still deliver the results higher ups want... so long as they don't have too high a turnover they can appear to be made out of Teflon... they're probably the worst sort. At least the ones who are crap from all perspectives tend not to last so long.
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Soldato
Being a CEO is about defining a direction and managing a team to run with the plan so most of the hard graft is done below them. They are normally there to provide the ideas / plan. Some are good and some arent
Caporegime
Yes. I'd say so. I've worked for large multinationals. Worked for small private companies. My father runs his own business and has done for many years so I've known many people within his industry.
I've seen some of the horrible tactics execs and directors use. I've seen some make amazing sacrifices for their companies and workers.
I've personally known a guy put 3 other businesses out of work at one time just to retire with a comfortable life.
He ran a construction firm, had just finished a site of bungalows (all sold) but owed contractors a lot. He defaulted on his debts, folded up shop and moved to Spain - they got nothing. It caused a scaffolding firm to fold (about 30 employees), an electrician (6) and a carpentry firm (about 10 employees). These are amongst other suppliers that he owed millions to in total.
On the other hand I've known a guy who sold his house and cars and lived in his van just so he could continue to pay his employees and suppliers when times were hard, the business came back from the brink and is now very successful. He could have just closed, given up and left them in debt and his staff unpaid.
I don't think it's unreasonable to have an issue with anybody who is incapable of doing their job to an acceptable standard, regardless of pay. It just tends to irritate more when that person is two layers of management above you and earned what you get paid in a day to spend a few hours misinterpreting your proposal to a client in a way that ends up making you look like you're planning deployments that won't work.
Ultimately the answer is to get a better job but I don't think it's possible to totally not care when that sort of thing happens.
Ultimately the answer is to get a better job but I don't think it's possible to totally not care when that sort of thing happens.
yeah i've seen many people like this - sometimes they get found out and sacked, but in large organisations and public companies all they do is move them sideways or up because its easier. Eventually you get people incredibly high up who are incompetent morons.
i should say i also know people getting paid stupid amounts of money and they deserve it because they really are better than everybody else.
I think that first example has departed slightly from poor management skills and strayed into borderline criminality.
Caporegime
Sadly the way he did it was entirely legal. Basically split his company in two. Gave the debts to one half and folded it.
It is very rare for really rubbish people to become the leaders of companies and maintain that position for a long time. However it is very common for people who sit in the lower ranks or who have never had any form of P&L responsibility to know better (no inference) and have all the answers for questions no one asked. It's the nature of the beast because they have never and probably never will walk in the persons shoes. Yea there are crap CEO's, but there are FAR more crap employees taking a wage and treading water, pointing figures at 'the managers' and quoting 'this bloke' stories, again it's the nature of the beast.
Calling yourself a CEO in a 10 man business is to me, laughable. A CEO in a corporation of many hundreds and thousands of employees is rarely crap, it just doesn't work that way and I work with CEO's often and have sat in many many board rooms over the years. Many friends run their own businesses or sit on the boards of big corporations and it's hard and many of the most successful ones have failed, often more than once before they got success. Good leaders and CEO's are rarely pulling the wool over everyones eyes (it does happen as we saw at the Coop), in fact most of the people on this forum won't have a clue what they do really do, day to day because they've only passed them in the corridor and heard 3rd hand stories.
You rarely if ever get to the very top of something, keep failing and stay at the top...well unless you start killing the opposition and even then you end up dead in your bunker after a serious acid trip and some fire.
But you know all that shows is how hard the world is. We all have the answers to what our politicians do wrong...but none of us have stood up to do it better. It's a no win game politics.
The middle managers are often the people who had the vitriol last month, but got the opportunity the moaners around them didn't and are 'having a go'. Everyone has to start somewhere
HR are ***** mind.
Caporegime
How much do you earn?