Does the S2000 have traction control?

[Jonnycoupe]

You don't *have* to rev it though, that's the myth. It's just the same as a normal 2l until you hit 6000rpm when it goes manic. You still get good performance <6000, but even better performance after that

Oh my, how this has changed over the last 12months, I'd have never imagined such words coming from you

 

[Simon]

On the ones I've test driven, it's not that the S2000 is just 'normal' below 6K and I'm expecting too much, but every rep car we have in the parking lot has more low down pull in everyday tootling driving..

It is though, similar torque but lower geared so if anything its better. Its just the kick at 6k makes the pre vtec seem lame.

Mondeo (Fox's)
http://www.kore.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/RRMeet4/Fox.pdf

My S2000
http://www.kore.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/RRMeet4/Simon.pdf

off vtec from 3k -5.5k rpm its 5Nm down on the what the mondeo makes at 4.2k peak . Then of course theres the fact it has shorter gears.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

For those that prefer turbo engines, Acura are fitting the K23A1 to the new RDX. Turbocharged 2.3l i-VTEC motor. 260ft-lbs of torque all the way down (compared with most performance VTECs) at 4500rpm. It's a long-stroke motor so not nearly as revvy (redline is 6800rpm IIRC) as the 2.0 and 2.2 litre motors despite having almost the same peak power as the F20C and F22C1. Should be quite a nice engine that, for a small four banger anyway

Just wait until SH-AWD comes along mainstream, its just the in the Legend at the mo with a 300bhp engine, its years ahead of the EVO AYC system. Should up the Honda stakes anyway.

 

[merlin]

Here's mine with a long powerband -

http://www.kore.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/RRMeet4/Merlin.pdf

Mine's got a good midrange now, but note with short gearing & K20 the mid range is actually 4500 to 7000, rather than the traditional 3000 to 5500 of say a non laggy turbo petrol.

For the record - I was a vtec doubter, up untill the point I actually got myself a proper test drive. It's all part of the experience, vtec engines have a nice racey feel, I like that.

 

[Demon]

Same applies for turbos though. If you're doing 50mph in 5th/6th in a turbo car you get zero happening until the turbo has spooled enough to create boost. Check out the video of the Evo 8 from earlier in this thread, Clarkson puts his foot down and nothing, and I mean nothing happens. He runs out of runway before the turbo really starts to get going.

And that's why it will always get slated as an 'everyday' driver... in the same way the S2000 is..

That pedal on the right isn't magic, it requires the correct gear selection to get the best out of it.

As do most sports cars, it's not the 'on the boil' manners I dislike, In fact, as Merlin says, that 'racy' feel is very nice, as it was on my GSXR600..
It's when you aren't on the boil that it really is chalk and cheese for me, perhaps some people like to be up and down the gears 'race' stylee when sat in 40-50 MPH Traffic, when I'm not driving fast, I suppose I like to be as relaxed as possible (lazy?)

It is though, similar torque but lower geared so if anything its better. Its just the kick at 6k makes the pre vtec seem lame.

When we had the long term (1 week) S2000 demo in work this wasn't the case, at 40-50 in top on a slight incline, and even a straight road, floor it, and absolutely nothing at all.... the only way to keep with the traffic flow, which was undulating between 40-60 MPH was to keep changing down to 4th at 40 to even get it to accelerate, I am sure all the cars in front where just in top gear.. And driving the same roads in the usual rep mobiles, they seem to be able to keep up fine in top gear..

I could be mistaken, I only had about 6 hours total time in the car, and of course plenty of nailing it was undertaken!, but every single person commented on the lack of pull when cruising in top gear.. including those that didn't give it any whellie at all and where just posing in it..

I've just looked at those R graphs, and I agree, the S2000 should perform if anything better then a 2.0 Mondeo when 'cruising' at low speeds, assuming the gearing is shorter in 5th/6th, be interesting to see the 'thrust curves'..

 

[merlin]

You can bet your bottom dollar dealers shove 95 ron in the tank of their forecourt S2000's.

 

[Simon]

You can bet your bottom dollar dealers shove 95 ron in the tank of their forecourt S2000's.

Yeah that makes them so crap and infact I would agree. 98Ron makes a massive massive difference to the whole feel of the car.

 

[eidolon]

Oh my, how this has changed over the last 12months, I'd have never imagined such words coming from you

Exactly!!

I've always been a die hard turbo fan and exclusively owned turbocharged cars for the last decade. Then I got the CTR which didn't impress me at first until I figured out how to drive it. Nowadays both of my cars are high revving screamers!

As most people know, I was all set to continue my turbo ways and buy a VX220 turbo but ended up getting an Elise, partly due to the superior handing but mostly due to the power delivery. As with most tuned turbo cars, the VXT had a significant jump in torque at 3500rpm which made corners tricky, the power was either on or off. The Elise on the other hand has a lovely linear delivery which enables you to balance the throttle round corners without fear that the back end will end up in a hedge.

 

[Stonedofmoo]

Same applies for turbos though. If you're doing 50mph in 5th/6th in a turbo car you get zero happening until the turbo has spooled enough to create boost. Check out the video of the Evo 8 from earlier in this thread, Clarkson puts his foot down and nothing, and I mean nothing happens. He runs out of runway before the turbo really starts to get going.

That pedal on the right isn't magic, it requires the correct gear selection to get the best out of it.

That was a totally unrealistic test though. He chose a car with much laggier turbo than most and also started the test at what, 30mph? No one drives in 5th gear at 30mph unless you are drifting down hill as nothing is going to happen, thats in ANY type of car.

the VXT had a significant jump in torque at 3500rpm which made corners tricky, the power was either on or off. The Elise on the other hand has a lovely linear delivery which enables you to balance the throttle round corners without fear that the back end will end up in a hedge.

Yeah but thats what made it so exciting to drive! I loved the VXT for the power delivery

 

[eidolon]

No one drives in 5th gear at 30mph unless you are drifting down hill as nothing is going to happen, thats in ANY type of car.

But some people expect an S2000 to pull from 50mph in 6th though..........

Where's the difference?

Choose the correct gear and you'll be fine, whether it's a turbo car or a VTEC. Choose the wrong one and of course it won't go anywhere, that's the point I've been trying to make for the last 5 pages.

 

[merlin]

I dont even touch 6th untill I'm on the dual carriagway or motorway.

It's there for economy, not driving. How hard is that to grasp?

 

[Stonedofmoo]

For sure, I quite agree. The issue isn't your logic eidolon which is flawless, but it's rather an extreme example

The issue is some people simply don't like changing gears much; VTEC or laggy turbocharged cars aint for them.

Mind you, re-reading that i'd certainly expect something to happen at 50mph in 6th. I've not personally driven a 6 speed car but I know my friends 3L V6 Calibra pulls respectably from around 40mph in 6th

 

[merlin]

Vtec is a very nice system. It's rewarding, reliable, durable, exciting, brings a lovely racey feeling and noise, it can be economical, it avoids FI under bonnet heat issues and it balances the car by delivering smooth power.

Like it or lump it.

 

[D4VE]

Vtec is a very nice system. It's rewarding, reliable, durable, exciting, brings a lovely racey feeling and noise, it can be economical, it avoids FI under bonnet heat issues and it balances the car by delivering smooth power.

Like it or lump it.

Absolutely, although I hated my Civic VTi with a passion. Wasnt VTECs thought though, it was stupid gearing, dull looks, silly big steering wheel, sloppy suspension.
I think I'd like an S2000 as its a proper VTEC car.

 

[Mr_Sukebe]

Vtec is a very nice system. It's rewarding, reliable, durable, exciting, brings a lovely racey feeling and noise, it can be economical, it avoids FI under bonnet heat issues and it balances the car by delivering smooth power.

Like it or lump it.

Just what does it bring to the party that a lightweight v8 like the ancient Rover/Buick doesn't?
The VTEC might be slightly more economical in test conditions (probably less so in real world conditions) weighs only slightly less, but doesn't offer any real benefits in power, has massively less torque, and sounds like a hair dryer when compared to a muscle car.

 

[Bear]

Here's mine with a long powerband -

http://www.kore.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/RRMeet4/Merlin.pdf

Mine's got a good midrange now, but note with short gearing & K20 the mid range is actually 4500 to 7000, rather than the traditional 3000 to 5500 of say a non laggy turbo petrol.

Its not really a comparison though. A turbo car may start to taper off earlier but it still holds more torque to the redline all be it lower down the reduced rev range.

HKS do a step 2 head with solid lifters rated to 9k rpm for the 200. That would be a laugh mated to a turbo that would flow well to the red line.

Its all good at the end of the day.

 

[Gibbo]

When we had the long term (1 week) S2000 demo in work this wasn't the case, at 40-50 in top on a slight incline, and even a straight road, floor it, and absolutely nothing at all.... the only way to keep with the traffic flow, which was undulating between 40-60 MPH was to keep changing down to 4th at 40 to even get it to accelerate, I am sure all the cars in front where just in top gear.. And driving the same roads in the usual rep mobiles, they seem to be able to keep up fine in top gear..

Hi there

I've owned a JDM 1999 S2000, consider the most raw of the cars. Obviously been an import it was designed for 100 RON so I always fueled with the best stuff I could.

Now with it in 6th gear on country lines and motorways pulling from 6th even when an incline it did with no issues at all. I since modded the car with an AEM V2 Cold air Intake and had a performance CAT BACK designed and fitted. This modifications made the car a lot better, especially in the mid-range like 3500-5500rpm.

I've got an old BMW 525i now which is 5-speed. This in 5th does pickup slightly better than the S2000 did but you'd expect from a 2500cc straight 6 engine, but saying that the S2000 in 6th was not much worse.

So I think you definetely had a duff S2000 or were giving it crap fuel.

 

[Jonnycoupe]

Just what does it bring to the party that a lightweight v8 like the ancient Rover/Buick doesn't?

To be fair the F20C in the s2000 is only in the s2000 so lightweight isnt so much of an issue when its all behind the front wheels and mounted low. It is still lighter than a Buick. Most the mass is in the stiff bottom end unlike a V with two heads etc lifting the C of G. Its more compact design allows the packaging along with just being able to say it revs to 9k and its specific output thats enough to make it a good seller with those specs in the marketing material.

The S2000 is a sports car rather than a roadster so personally i think the engine suits it well.

With regard to the turbo more torque to the redline comment, i totally see where your coming from, but in the drivers seat you can still feel the less than rewarding tail off. Regardless of that its all conjecture about real world performance unless you look at thrust curves though for the torque that mattery. In terms of what the S2000 offers out of the box its pretty impressive so its preferable to be more subjective by comparing standard cars here.

There is some info on a S2000R they were developing with a 3.0 with 360bhp and 230lbft due for 2003, seems that never materialised. Interesting pages detailing the mods and so on though that Honda intended to create more of a muscular roadster.

 

[JRS]

Right, simple question time. Would the people who like the way the S2000 drives please tell me what is fun about runting up and down a gearbox in search of a whole 240 horsies and a whopping 153ft-lbs of torque?

Frankly, if I'm going to put that kind of effort into driving quickly I'd want rather more out of the experience. Which is why I like big, simple, torquey pushrod V8s. No fuss, no stirring around for exactly the right cog for the exact situation. Just a great gob of power and torque, all available without resorting to winding the motor up to silly-bugger rpms.

Most the mass is in the stiff bottom end unlike a V with two heads etc lifting the C of G.

Of course, the Buick 215/Olds Jetfire 215 had aluminium heads as well as block so the CG wasn't all that high - the crank pulling it quite a way down. In fact, the Buick version weighed 318lb (compared with the Olds version weighing in at 350lb and the Rover iteration at 375lb). The Olds version is still the better of the American pair as a) they added a 5th head bolt to counter some warping issues arising from poor maintenance and b) they offered a turbocharged version

 

[Demon]

Hi there

I've owned a JDM 1999 S2000, consider the most raw of the cars. Obviously been an import it was designed for 100 RON so I always fueled with the best stuff I could.

Now with it in 6th gear on country lines and motorways pulling from 6th even when an incline it did with no issues at all. I since modded the car with an AEM V2 Cold air Intake and had a performance CAT BACK designed and fitted. This modifications made the car a lot better, especially in the mid-range like 3500-5500rpm.

I've got an old BMW 525i now which is 5-speed. This in 5th does pickup slightly better than the S2000 did but you'd expect from a 2500cc straight 6 engine, but saying that the S2000 in 6th was not much worse.

So I think you definetely had a duff S2000 or were giving it crap fuel.

Fair point Gibbo..

I assume it did have 95 Ron in it when I drove the demo car, as Merlin pointed out, I can't see any dealer splashing out on 100 Ron.

I am prepared to admit that perhaps my experience is not 100% accurate, but more biased from my perception of lack of power.. although Will Gill's opinion of his S2000's power delivery just seems to ring true with my own 'feelings' after test driving one.

Then reading Eidolon's post and replies, I can see there are two seperate camps that are both 'right', I would take the VXT over the Elise anyday for the same reason I love my GSXR1000 over my GSXR600